Panzer II Plastic TS1 Primed 200810

[EarlyWarGamer]

Panzer Tracts 2-1 has PLENTY of GREAT details.

If we remain focused only on the Ausf A, B and C (book 2-1 covers the early models plus those three production models) then we learn that all of them, every A, every B and every C came from the factory with a rounded hull.

We know that "some" Ausf As had bullet splash guards bolted to the top of the superstructure.
We know that most Ausf Bs had bullet splash guards welded to the top of the superstructure.
We know that all Ausf Cs had bullet splash guards welded to the top of the superstructure.

We know that only rounded hull versions of the Pz II served in Poland and Norway.  We know that "many" rounded hull models served in France 1940.

There is an entire chapter (just a few pages) dedicated to all of the official orders authorizing back-fitting of improvements.

The order that allowed upgraded armor (to the turret face, the glacis plate, and the rounded-hull front) is dated February 1940. And mention is made that this was under way during February and March of 1940. But there was specific references to certain vehicles in certain Panzer Regiments (5th and 6th of the 3rd Panzer Division), probably in anticipation of France. But not every Ausf c through Ausf C were back-fitted in this way during those two months.

There is specific mention that 4th Panser Division was in the process of getting their Pz IIs upgraded with the additional armor package, but that not all of them were completed when the invasion of France began.

In October 1940 the cupola upgrade was authorized.  October 1940 is also when the blackout headlight was mandated.

So the picture as I see it is this:

Poland 1939 - only rounded hull, no additional armor. Ausf A, B and C were all there. We are talking with and without bullet splash shields, and slight differences in vision ports as the main (recognizable) differences.

Norway 1940 - only rounded hull, no additional armor.

Have not sorted out if any Pz IIs that attacked the low countries had the armor-upgrade. The only two Panzer Divisions mentioned invaded France.

France 1940 you should see both rounded-hull and up-armored versions.

After France, just about every Pz II would have the additional armor.

So my "complaint" is that since none of the hulls shown in the kit are rounded, that means that hull has the extra armor. Which means nobody should ever build this kit with the extra armor missing from the superstructure or the turret.

This means ... having kit pieces that lack the armor upgrade on the turret and superstructure are two pieces that should never be used. There should never be a Pz II A, B or C that has the angled front but is MISSING the additional armor on the turret and driver's front plate.

There is also mention that in February 1941, "Tropenfaehig" (tropical) modifications were authorized for any Ausf A thru Ausf C that were shipping to Africa to be part of Panzer Regiments 5 and 8.  By 1941 all Pz IIs would have been back-fitted with the additional armor,

Since the rear hull top plate is "fixed" and there is no provision to either install the standard louvers or the tropical louvers, then the kit as shown is european duty only.

So for the purist, the advertising campaign for this kit should not state that it can build any Ausf A, B or C, early to mid war.  Not true. It can only build an Ausf A, B or C for europe, starting with France 1940.

And that means they designed a kit and configured the sprues to include pieces that should not be used.  Ever.

I know it is true that most won't care. And this kit will certainly see white crosses for Poland and Afrika Korps colors and palm trees.  But unlike the Soviet T-26 which really can be made into one of 10 different versions of that tank, this kit is limited. And that is too bad.

If the hull were rounded, and there was a two piece plate that could be glued over it to form the angled front, this kit would open up to greater possibilities. And having the rear engine deck have a couple of different panels to show european and african louvers, this kit would be amazing in its versatility.

[ripley]

Too bad the Germans didn't design they're vehicles in the Lego like fashion the Yanks did , its pretty easy to swap out Sherman transmission covers , wheel mounts , even engine decks kit parts . No so with the Panzers I'm afraid . I guess Rubicon  could redesign the hull to give the round nose option and the engine deck could have a variety of louver types but how long would that take and how much would it cost ? And is there a " need " for a  very early war Panzer II , how many gamers really want it ? How many would want the small wheel a ,b  version instead ? I assume Rubicon have done the research and have a good idea of what the community wants in a Panzer II , this site being a very small part of that community  no matter how special we think we are .

[EarlyWarGamer]

I get why this kit could not have the Ausf a, b and c models, as the track design was totally different, and that could become a lot of extra parts that might up the sprue count.

But I think the hull could have been made rounded, with a couple of small flat panels that could be glued over that rounded hull to make it the armor upgrade. And you would need a rear engine deck that had two openings, where you installed the driver hatch and the access hatch for the radiator.  A solid hatch over the radiator is for europe. A louvered access hatch is for Africa.  We are talking a few extra pieces to allow the kit to serve ANYWHERE at ANY TIME.

Still delighted to have a plastic Pz II. Just saying the kit could have been better designed to accommodate those gamers or model makers who care/want proper kits for Poland, Norway and Africa.

[Tracks]

And that means they designed a kit and configured the sprues to include pieces that should not be used.  Ever.

Thanks for sharing EWG. Hopefully Rubicon Models will read your notes because they are good.

Maybe Rubicon Models will remove those parts from the kit plan that should not be used. They can then use the freed up space to add something more useful like a new rear deck (or make adjustments to the existing parts). This way their Panzer II model kit can be assembled for either Europe or Africa. How nice would that be?

Overall, I am really excited about this new Panzer II kit from Rubicon Models.

I assume Rubicon have done the research and have a good idea of what the community wants in a Panzer II , this site being a very small part of that community  no matter how special we think we are .

Yes, but remember the Panzer III idler wheel issue?
What about the Panzer IV barrel issue?
No matter how careful we can be, sometimes mistakes do happen.
Overall, Rubicon Models does a really good job.

[Tracks]

Speaking of Idler Wheels...


Also, do people know that the 20mm gun barrel on the Pz.II Ausf, F is slightly longer than that on the Ausf. c, A, B, C? All the Panzer IIs used the same ammunition, but the barrel length (in calibers) was slightly increased for the Ausf. F, which gave the 20mm shell a bit more velocity and a bit more AP punch. However, on a 1;56 scale gaming kit, it might not be worth the extra trouble to include this detail. However, I do hope RM does not make the gun barrel too thin since this is mostly going to be a gaming model kit.
Yes!.. finally a Panzer II in plastic. 

[ripley]

I get your point on early miss steps by Rubicon , I was thinking about research into customers wanting an early round nose II . If out of 100 gamers polled , only half a dozen want that version , is it worth adding the parts to the kit ? I wouldn't think so .  And yes , I had to go back and check the CAD designs on page 1 of this thread , the F version  does have that style idler

[Rubicon Models]

Does anyone has the blueprint for the round hull Panzer II? 
We can look into integrating it into the kit if part space permits.

Thanks!

[Jaeger]

George Bradford's Stackpole book was of no help showing a Pz II Aus b with original running gear, a Pz II Aus C with angle front and an Pz II Aus F. 
The more I explore this Panzer I see pictures of Pz II Aus A with angled fronts, Pz II Aus C with angled fronts but plenty of rounded hulls of the Pz II Aus b & c in pictures from 1938 - 1941 on all active fronts.. 
I'm encouraged by the above request for blueprints. 

[EarlyWarGamer]

I have the drawings from the Panzer Tracts 2-1. I will scan those and post.

It has blueprints of the Ausf c (out of scope for the kit, perhaps, but the first of the 5-road-wheel suspensions), and then an Ausf A, Ausf B and Ausf C ... showing the subtle changes to each. And then finally an Ausf B with back-fitted elements (extra armor, notek headlight, cupola, stowage bin on right fender ... and the "Tropen" mods (larger, and extra, louvers on the engine deck).

[Tracks]

The first book I checked was my "World War II AFV Plans - German Early War Armored Fighting Vehicles" by George Bradford, and like Jaeger, I was disappointed to find that there was no drawing of the Pz.II c/A/B/C with the rounded front.

That didn't stop me. I then checked my Squadron Signal, Osprey, AFV Profile, and Schiffer books, but no good drawings. However, I have found some good pictures in these books, and in many others including the Armor at War series (including German Light Tanks). Some really good pictures, but no detailed drawings. What is frustrating is that I have several Panzer Tracts books, but not No.2-1 and No.2-2.

Hopefully EWG can get those pages scanned for Rubicon Models. How great would that be if Rubicon Models can somehow integrate both a rounded hull and the angled hull giving the gamer/modeller more choices. That being said, if given one choice, I would prefer the angled hull as planned above.

[EarlyWarGamer]

Here is the blueprint for the Pz II Ausf c (lower case). This was the first Pz II to have the five road wheels. They built 74 of these.  The Ausf A, B and C which followed took this as the base, and added improvements.  Some were internal, and some were small visible changes.  I am including it here as a baseline.



Here is the blueprint for the Ausf A. Biggest changes were the peaked driver's visor, and the one-piecve radio operator's hatch. Keen eyed observers will note that the Ausf A had just one fire extinguisher on the left-rear fender. The one that was on the right-front fender has been done away with (you will see it on the Ausf c diagram).



Here is the blueprint for the Ausf B. This one has bullet deflectors around the turret ring, and by the two forward facing visors.  Two more subtle changes ... there is now a reinforcing bar across the rear hull, and if you know where to look, there is a scalloped piece of metal welded to the rear engine compartment It was scalloped to make the weld longer. This was used to reinforce the engine compartment because earlier models started cracking right here.



Here is the blueprint for the Ausf C.  The visors have changed slightly,



And here is a blueprint showing an Ausf B that has been back-fitted with several authorized upgrades. This one has ALSO been given the "Tropen" upgrade, because it is headed to North Africa. This includes larger louvers on the radio operators hatch, and new louvers on the left-rear engine deck (over the radiator).



There is one more scan I meant to take and upload, showing the differences in the driver's vision port, and the vision ports around the vehicle (but I have not had the time to get to that one yet).

Enjoy

[Rubicon Models]

Thanks @EWG.  We have also found some references and is already working on it a few days ago.  Your blueprints will help to confirm our drawings are correct.  Thank again!

[tyroflyer]

EWG and Rubicon Models, a wonderful combination!

[Tracks]

@Rubicon Models: When I was going through my books, I found a lot of good photos, but there was one picture I thought would be useful for you as a reference. It is the cover art from one of my Osprey books (Duel No.66, Panzer II vs 7TP). It is a CAD illustration and not an actual photograph, but what makes this useful is the angle at which you can see the front hull.

I thought this could be useful for you, so here it is.
If you need a higher resolution or anything, just let me know.

Just click on the thumbnail  image below to get the full image.

[Rubicon Models]

@EWG, the scan resolution of the blueprints are too low to actually useful.  Do you have better copies?  Thanks!!