Author Topic: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 TS1 Assembled 201023  (Read 35307 times)

Rubicon Models

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2019, 10:03:22 pm »
Things are starting to get back to normal at the studio... after the King Tiger frenzies!

SdKfz 10 prototype waiting for final approval.  More pictures will follow!
























Enjoy!
;)

ripley

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2019, 10:30:28 pm »
Looking good . Will the side panels on the rear crew compartment be separate pieces ?

With the quality of work Rubicon is known for , I would assume they are , but you know what happens when you  assume something ……
So better to ask , right ?

Rubicon Models

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2019, 11:33:19 pm »
Looking good . Will the side panels on the rear crew compartment be separate pieces ?
With the quality of work Rubicon is known for, I would assume they are, but you know what happens when you assume something ……
So better to ask, right?
Glad you asked... the answer is "NO".  For modellers, it will be easy to remove that section by a sharp knife.  ;)

ripley

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2019, 11:40:21 pm »
Thanks for the reply .

Tracks

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2019, 11:55:32 pm »
Looking good! 

8)


Pinky

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2019, 08:45:43 am »
This looks terrific.  I'm really happy to see this vehicle making an appearance.

EarlyWarGamer

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2019, 11:41:55 am »
What I Hope We Get For a Rubicon Sd.Kfz. 10 Model

As this is my favorite German half track (and I realize I am likely alone in this regard), I am hoping Rubicon really do it up right. And by that I mean, provide as many options as possible, so that as many different makes and models as possible can be built.

To that end, I shall ramble on a bit about this vehicle, and interject from time to time with model options.  I hope this all makes sense.

Sd.Kfz 10 Ausf A : Deliveries began in October 1938. Base vehicle had a standard chassis and standard outer road wheels (see drawing below). The windshield could fold forward, had a canvas cover (to prevent glare), and could even be removed.  A convertible canvas top was mounted on the upper part of the rear body. It fastened to the windshield when erected. Four canvas side pieces could be attached to protect the crew from the weather.  About 3,300 were manufactured to this initial design.  Vehicles built to this standard served from the very first campaign of the war, to the very last.



Model Notes: So I hope Rubicon provides us with the parts to make this initial vehicle. As stated, over 3,300 were built to these specifications, including those that saw service during the earliest parts of the war.  Needed: Standard Hull. Standard Wheels. Canvas Tilt (three possible options: up fully enclosed, up with no side panels, and down).

Major Update #1:  The first pattern of road wheels had five wide-mouth cut-outs and narrow spokes.  To increase the towing weight capacity, a second pattern of road wheels were introduced which had five narrow-mouth cutouts with wider, reinforced spokes.  Starting in early 1940, and phased in at different times during the next 20 months by different manufacturers, these reinforced road wheels replaced standard road wheels in production.  By the start of 1942 all new production used reinforced road wheels.



Model Notes: So we need a second set of road wheels. Early Pattern were used exclusively from 1938 until 1940. And then they started phasing out during 1940 and 1941. They were no longer part of new construction starting 1942.  In terms of what Rubicon has shown us so far, they have shown us the reinforced road wheels. If we don't get the Early Pattern road wheels, then we cannot build any of those 3,300+ early machines. And that would be sad. To create an early war machine, and then only supply the parts to make a later model.

Major Update #2: Sd.Kfz. 10 Ausf B : Starting in April 1940 (at one manufacturer), and phased in gradually over the next 20 months by the other six manufacturers, the base model received a reinforced rear hull.  This was designed to increase towing weight capacity.  By the start of 1942 all new production used reinforced rear hulls.



Model Notes:  The hull that is shown by Rubicon is the Ausf B hull. The main differences between the original hull and the reinforced hull are (a) the under-carriage is reinforced (which is not visible unless you overturn the model), and (b) the rear facing panel. It is my hope that Rubicon design both rear panels, so that a model maker can use the Ausf A (unreinforced hull) tail, or the Ausf B (reinforced) tail.  The hull that Rubicon has shown us is the reinforced Ausf B hull.



Extra Bits :  Compressed Air Tank for Air Brakes:  Starting in late 1942 (September) and continuing on until the end of the war, a special version of the standard engine was produced which would compress air into a cylinder that was used to feed air brakes. The addition of air brakes allowed the Sd.Kfz. 10 to tow heavier weapons:  7.5cm PaK 40 AT gun (1.5 ton), 15cm sIG 33 infantry gun (2 ton), and the 10.5cm leFH 18 howitzer (3.5 ton).    Thousands of these special engines were built between late 1942 and the end of vehicle production in late 1944.  By my calculation, over half of all Ausf B models had the compressed air tank fitted.

Model Notes:  I am hoping Rubicon give us the air cylinder and extra bits to mount on the rear plate.  If you want to see a compressed air tank, check out the image above of the Ausf B model. A large cylinder (almost the width of the vehicle) is shown at the rear.

I am specifically targeting the base 10 model, but the above applies to the 10/4 and 10/5 as well.  Those built up until 1940 used early pattern road wheels and standard hull, those built starting 1942 were built using late pattern road wheels and reinforced hull.  And then we have a two-year period of 1940-1941 where the road wheels changed from early to late pattern, and the hull changed from standard to reinforced. This phased in at different times during this two years. There were seven manufacturers and they all phased in at different times.

Final Note:  I love seeing the canvas tilt provided (both up and down versions). If Rubicon don't wish to provide separate rear plates to support standard versus reinforced hulls, I understand. But I REALLY hope they provide both sets of road wheels. I would like to have a proper model for Poland 1939 and France 1940. 

From what I have gathered, total production was 13,988 across all types. My best analysis of the production figures know, and best guess at the production figures that didn't survive the war, leads me to the following:
SdKfz 10 Ausf A = 3,300                (from 1938 - 1941)
SdKfz 10 Ausf B = 3,637                (from 1940 - 1944)
SdKfz 10/1, 10/2 and 10/3 = 537  (from 1939 - 1941)
SdKfz 10/4 = 3,234                        (from 1939 - 1942)    Some of these were on Ausf A hulls, and some of these were on Ausf B hulls
SdKfz 10/5 = 3,280                        (from 1942 - 1944)    All of these were on Ausf B hulls

tyroflyer

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2019, 04:08:27 pm »
Excellent Info EWG. An Ausf A please Rubicon.

Rubicon Models

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2019, 04:30:21 pm »
@EWG, thanks for sharing this info.  We had studied both Ausf A and B before starting the project.  In the end, we opted to go for Ausf B only.

There are many reasons behind the decision, mainly because of sprue space and part counts.  If we are to do both variants, that would mean two different lower frame plus roadwheels and tracks... all relatively large parts that could take up half of a sprue.  One way to "pretend" doing an Ausf A is to do just the roadwheels without touching the lower vehicle frame, which our designer doesn't want to.

We are still working on refining the design and will include your comments for discussion.

;)

EarlyWarGamer

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2019, 05:16:19 am »
I assumed that while the most visible difference between an Ausf A and Ausf B was the tailgate panel, you would probably not want to just make two tailgates. The underside (for scale modelers) would need to be correct, and that essentially makes it a whole new kit.

I would URGE you however, to find a way to support a second set of tracks with the early pattern.  They are easily the most recognizable difference between the earliest vehicles, and the later ones.  I can attempt a kitbash of the tail panel on my own if I really want to. But there is no way to model an early pattern road wheel set.

There is countless photo evidence of early pattern wheels on vehicles fighting during the late war period, not just SdKfz 10 vehicles, but the 10/4 and 10/5 as well.

But however it turns out, thanks for taking my post under advisement!

Tracks

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2019, 04:54:29 pm »
For my gaming group, a lot of us are really looking forward to this SdKfz 10 kit from Rubicon Models. In fact, any good plastic SdKfz 10 (Italeri or Rubicon) kit has been long in waiting.

Quote from: EarlyWarGamer
If Rubicon don't wish to provide separate rear plates to support standard versus reinforced hulls, I understand. But I REALLY hope they provide both sets of road wheels. I would like to have a proper model for Poland 1939 and France 1940. 

From a rivet-counter point a view, you make a very good point, but from a general gamer point of view, it wouldn't matter as much. In fact, if given a choice between an Ausf A or an Ausf B, I know that most gamers would prefer and choose the Ausf B.

Also, if we look at production numbers, more Ausf Bs were produced than Ausf As.

Using an Ausf B for a 1939 Poland game will not cause anarchy. Why you might say? Well, except for a selected few, most miniature wargamers will not even notice or spot the difference. Now, there might be some anal-rivet-counter gaming groups out there that might view this as heresy, but I see this as a failing because most gaming groups I have meet use common sense and make due with what is available.

Quote from: EarlyWarGamer
I would URGE you however, to find a way to support a second set of tracks with the early pattern.
...
There is countless photo evidence of early pattern wheels on vehicles fighting during the late war period, not just SdKfz 10 vehicles, but the 10/4 and 10/5 as well.

Maybe the easiest solution for Rubicon Models would be for them to offer a resin add-on parts package for those that really want to have the means to make an Ausf A.

EarlyWarGamer

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2019, 12:21:14 am »
As a gamer first and foremost, it is certainly fine plopping down a model and saying it is something else.  And an Ausf B acting as an Ausf A is, as you say, a no-brainer. They are very close visually. And almost nobody would know the difference. I don't fault Rubicon for opting for the Ausf B. Sprue space is limited, and you go with the best you can do.

However, that same stance is why most companies crank out late war tanks, because people want to field the biggest, baddest versions of stuff.  And that almost always means that Early War Gamers (such as myself) get left doing substitutions.  Again, I get it. Business decisions must be made, or you don't stay in business.

I am simply hoping that Rubicon can find a way to include the bits needed to increase the number of models/variants.

They are giving us ( for example) two full canvas tilts, one with windows open, and one closed. I would rather get a closed version only, and use the sprue space to provide early pattern wheels.  As Rubicon have stated regarding the side panels that slide down, if people want them "open" they can cut those panels off themselves.  Well, we can cut open the windows if we want them open. Saving that place on the sprues for other options.

Not complaining. Simply trying to point out certain Early War Gamer options.

For example, when it comes to the 10/4 model, they were made with no rifle racks on fenders up until January 1940. From that point onward, they had open rifle racks. Two years later, starting in January 1942, those rifle racks became covered.  I am hoping we get both uncovered and covered versions of those rifle racks. That way we can build a pre-1940 version, a 1940-1941 version, and a 1942+ version.

I LOVE the fact that the 10/4 shown has the loading ramps on the front, and the pulleys behind the driver and co-driver. If those are molded on instead of an add-on part, then I will need to remove them for a Poland 1939 campaign, because those didn't make an appearance until January 1940.  And they were phased out by the end of 1941, so anyone making a 1942+ version might want to consider removing them as well.  So I am hoping those bits are a separate piece that can be added to the model or left off.  Again, not complaining. Just suggesting.

From a marketing point of view, having a kit that can state "Kit can be used to make an Ausf A or Ausf B, with two versions of covered rifle racks, and with or without loading tramps and compressed air tanks" sounds like it can represent closer a wider variety of vehicles.  A kit that says "Build an Sd.Kfz 1940-1941 Ausf B with late pattern road wheels" is way more limited.

Tracks

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2019, 10:36:22 am »
Quote from: EarlyWarGamer
They are giving us ( for example) two full canvas tilts, one with windows open, and one closed. I would rather get a closed version only, and use the sprue space to provide early pattern wheels.

I second this!

Surprised Rubicon Models didn't already do this.

ripley

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10 3D Prototype 191122
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2019, 11:10:34 am »
Although not a deal breaker for me , I mostly build late war , I too would rather have both sets of wheels and vehicle rear rather than a canvas top . Maybe the top could be released as a resin blister pack ?

Rubicon Models

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Re: SdKfz 10 - SdKfz 10/4 3D Prototype 191129
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2019, 07:40:28 pm »
Following up on our SdKfz 10 posting from last week, we are presenting the SdKfz 10/4 - a union of two new plastic projects - SdKfz 10 half-track with 2cm FlaK 30 light AA gun!

























Enjoy!
;)