M5A1 Stuart / M8 Scott - Project CLOSED!

[Rubicon Models]

Some Historical Background

A total of 6,810 M5A1 was produced.  M5A1 was basically a M5 with a M3A3 turret; this was the major variant in US units by 1943.  The M5A1 was used throughout the war in almost all theaters; particularly in the Pacific.  It was also used by other countries, including the UK, Russia, France, China and Yugoslavia.

A total of 1,778 M8 was produced from Sep 42 to Jan 44.  The M8 was used in the Italian Campaign, the Western Front, and in the Pacific Theater of Operations by the US Army and on the Western Front by the French Army. It was also used by the French Union and State of Vietnam during the First Indochina War. It stayed in French service until the 1960s and saw service in Algeria.

Our Thoughts

- We will not do a "all-in-one" 4 sprue kit as the Tiger I.  We do not foresee people spending £23 for a small tank!
- Also there will be a lot of extra bits left behind after building a single variant which we think is not eco-friendly!
- We currently do not have plans to do more variants for the M3/M5 series, so no expansion sprue like the SdKfz 251D series.
- We incline to produce two plastic kits for this M5A1/M8 project; one being a M5A1 & Kangaroo and the other a M5A1 & M8 kit.
- Both will be priced competitively with other Rubicon kits.

Any comments?

[Pinky]

Did you want comments on the historical background?  For instance, the Soviets didn't get any M5A1s. 

I guess two kits, each with two options, makes sense.  Would it mean you would include a few more parts for each version?   

You didn't like my suggestion of providing enough parts in each kit to build two vehicles?  I think people would pay the same price as a Tiger I for that.  But you'll make more money from separate kits 

 

[Rubicon Models]

Did you want comments on the historical background?  For instance, the Soviets didn't get any M5A1s.

You are correct, the Russians had M3, not M5...   

I guess two kits, each with two options, makes sense.  Would it mean you would include a few more parts for each version?   
You didn't like my suggestion of providing enough parts in each kit to build two vehicles?  I think people would pay the same price as a Tiger I for that.  But you'll make more money from separate kits 

We have considered different combinations of the four... all with an extra loads of spare parts!  The "two vehicles" build was initially planned, but making it work meant an extra sprue... not budgeted!  So we are left with "two kits" version!

[ripley]

I think the Two Kit versions would be the way to go . Its keeps the price down and doesn't waste a lot of useless  plastic left over bits . ( No idea what to do with the extra turret roofs from your Tiger kit , but the tracks are going to grace an Ork tank    )

[Cat]

Doing 2 kits makes sense for those of us who paint all the markings on vehicles.  M5/M8 for US, M5/Jalopy for foreigners.

[Pinky]

Doing 2 kits makes sense for those of us who paint all the markings on vehicles.  M5/M8 for US, M5/Jalopy for foreigners.

That's a good point. 

Here's what I would suggest for the background for these vehicles (the version above looks like it's straight off Wikipedia):

The M5A1 light tank was essentially an M5 with the larger turret first introduced on the M3A3.  Production began in early 1943, and a total of 6,810 M5A1s were produced.  By June 1944, the US Army had almost most entirely switched to the M5A1.  It was also used by the US Marines.  In Northwest Europe, the M5A1 was primarily used for scouting and security duties, although it still had a role as a gun tank in the Pacific.  It was also used by Britain, Canada, Poland and France, as well as the Yugoslav partisans and (after WW2) China.  In British, Canadian and Polish service, the M5A1 was known as the Stuart VI, and from 1943 onwards the turret was frequently removed, resulting in the Stuart Recce.

The M8 HMC was based on the M5 chassis.  It was intended to provide indirect fire support for armoured reconnaissance units.  A total of 1,778 M8s were produced from September 1942 to January 1944.  The M8 was used by the US Army and Free French in Italy and Northwest Europe, and by the US Army in the Pacific.  Eventually replaced by the M4(105mm) and M7 Priest, it saw service after WW2 with the French Expeditionary Force in Vietnam.

[Pinky]

It just occurred to me - if you're going to have an M5A1/M8 kit and a separate kit with the Recce parts, why not make the separate kit an M3A3/Recce?  You'd only need to do a new hull, which would also justify the additional sprue you'd need for the Recce variant (which otherwise just consists of an armoured turret ring and some machine guns).  Then (like Cat suggested) you could market the M5A1/M8 as a US vehicle, and the M3A3/Recce as a British/Commonwealth vehicle.

[Rubicon Models]

We will look into this... probably too late as we had already moved the project into the mould making phase; will discuss with studio staff!
Major changes on the 3D drawing will meant delay on other on-going projects, don't think studio staff will like that, but will definitely bring this up during our next meeting!
 

[Laffe]

It just occurred to me - if you're going to have an M5A1/M8 kit and a separate kit with the Recce parts, why not make the separate kit an M3A3/Recce?  You'd only need to do a new hull, which would also justify the additional sprue you'd need for the Recce variant (which otherwise just consists of an armoured turret ring and some machine guns).  Then (like Cat suggested) you could market the M5A1/M8 as a US vehicle, and the M3A3/Recce as a British/Commonwealth vehicle.

That's a good idea!

[Rubicon Models]

Again, had been quiet on the M5A1/M8 project for a while.  Factory & studio had been busy with other OEM projects.  Finally had the moulds done!

The following is our first test shots for the M5A1/M8 project:

Sprue A & C - M5A1 Stuart (Mid & Late Production) / M5A1 Reece (Kangaroo)
Sprue A & B - M8 Scott / M5A1 Stuart (Mid Production)







We have some major shrinkage issues in some area which we think is related to injection pressure and cooling time; plus some loose ends to fix, but overall quality is satisfactory!

[Pinky]

Well these all look pretty good from here!  Lovely work on the design of these kits.  You've come a long way since the Panzer IV

[Rubicon Models]

The Panzer IV is our first plastic kit.  The project was started in Nov 2013 and moulds being done by Apr 2014.  We had used the Panzer IV as a beta test to see if we are to form Rubicon Models and to continue with our dream.  We'd never look back since!

Had learned a lot from mistakes in research, project management, and mould making techniques...   One thing we are still no good at is factoring holidays into our production schedule - Chinese New Year, Golden Week, and so forth!  Then there are distractions, like OEM businesses.  Anyway, had been a very fruitful year since the official first releases in Nov 2014 ...and had to thank you and everyone who had continued to buy our products!!

Upcoming projects will be even more awesome!  Stay tuned!!

[elias.tibbs]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the reasoning behind 4 x .50cals and 2 x .30cals?

Is it so you can make all the different turrets, stick them on and not have to worry about swapping the pintle mounts between them? Does that mean this kit has easily swappable turrets between the M5 and the M8 without any plasticard (like the Sherman kit)?

[Pinky]

Is there a .30 cal for the M5A1 on the M5A1/M8 combination?  Maybe I'm missing something, but I can only see a .50 cal on sprue B.

[johan]

There are more on sprue C. Only sprue A is for both boxes. B and C come depending on wether you bought the M5/M8 or the M5/Recce version.