Sherman Tank Variations

[H0ffmn]

 Looking at other manufacturers Sherman kits, such the New Heller 1/72" scale kit,UM's and DML's  1/72" scale Sherman kits,they all share similar features which allow those manufacturers to have variations in their kits with just a few part changes. For example, the small hatched M4 and M4A2 Sherman share the same upper hull. The only difference between them is the engine deck. Heller cast separate engine decks for their M4 and M4A2 kits,and use the same hull for both kits.
 So, with a single hull, two separate engine decks,two separate rear lower hulls and exhausts, a M4 and a M4A2 could be made from one kit easily. And with the option for two separate upper glacius plates, a earlier direct vision M4 and M4A2 could be made.
 So,FOUR different versions could be made from ONE kit, having variations to represent the countries of all Sherman users.
Also, a Sherman Firefly could be made from the M4/Sherman 1c kit.
        Just a suggestion
 

[Pinky]

I agree that a kit with options for an M4 and an M4A2 would be useful - especially if it was possible to build early versions of both.  I think Rubicon's issue may be trying to design a Sherman kit which doesn't replicate others.  Warlord already does a decent M4, so maybe that's less attractive as an option. 

[Rubicon Models]

At this point, we are indeed working on the M4, but not as a vehicle as a whole.

Think we have posted this subject somewhere.  We are building a digital library of M4 parts - tracks, boggies, engine decks, crew hatches, gun mantlets, turrets, transmission housing, glacis plates, etc.  After this is done, we can simply find all the right parts to build any M4 variants with ease... except for the M4A4 which might need some more adjustments.

[H0ffmn]

I agree that the Warlord M4 kit is decent,but Rubicon still had released a Panzer IV,Tiger,and two Panthers after Warlord had, that hasn't stopped them before. I just suggested that Rubicon could have four variations of Sherman tanks with minimal effort with what I posted earlier. They could take it a step further with a different gun ,gun mantle,gun shield, hatch and storage bin and have a Firefly as well.
The same could be done with the large hatched Sherman hull. The M4,M4A2 and M4A3 all share the same upper hull with different engine decks. The M4 would only use the 105mm howitzer turret,which Rubicon alreaday have.
    Just another suggestion....
 

[H0ffmn]

A good source for variations of Sherman hulls is the magazine on Sherman's put out by Military Miniatures in Review.

[ultravanillasmurf]

Cool.

... except for the M4A4 which might need some more adjustments.

True, but is it much more than the work on a cast hull? The lower hull is longer but uses the same bogies etc.

In your library are you working on the various sprockets as well as the road wheels you mentioned in the allied stowage?

[Rubicon Models]

In your library are you working on the various sprockets as well as the road wheels you mentioned in the allied stowage?

That was part of the plan!

[sandsmodels]

the rear hull plate on the m4 is different than the m4a2, the m4 and m4a1 has a cut out where the airfilters are, so it would mean a separate hull end plate at least.
shermans are not easy to understand and lots of big differences, sadly for us manufacterers!

[ultravanillasmurf]

Apparently the M4 rearplate varies as well, some vertical others angled (by manufacturer). ^___^

[sandsmodels]

not sure about too many variations but all m4's and m4a1s I have seen have a cut out rear plate

[ultravanillasmurf]

I admit I have seen only a few Shermans, and not really noticed the differences before.

The cut outs appear different shapes between the M4 and the M4A1.

Has anyone any knowledge of the M4 105?

[Pinky]

Has anyone any knowledge of the M4 105?

Yes.  What do you want to know?  Basically it had the later 'large hatch' welded hull with the 47 degree glacis, like the late M4A3.  Hunnicutt's book on the Sherman has a fair bit of info on it. 

[ultravanillasmurf]

Thanks, I have seen a set of photographs of an M4 105 but it looked so different including the non U shaped rear hull.

Is that Sherman - History of the American Medium Tank?

Edit: just checked big river corporation £70!

[Pinky]

Yes, that's the book.  It's not 100% accurate, but it's a very good source on the Sherman.  I tried to encourage Rubicon to acquire it, as it puts a lot of the variants in their historical context. 

The M4 105mm went into production in early 1944, at the same time as the 'large hatch' M4A1.  It was part of a rationalisation process, which included introducing the 76mm turret and dropping the M4A4 from production.  1641 M4 105mms were built through to March 1945.  As I mentioned, it had the 'large hatch' welded hull, and the initial versions had the split commander's hatch.  Later versions had the vision cupola.  The last 841 vehicles had HVSS.  The rear hull was straight, as you mentioned.  105mm armed tanks also had a blower on the rear turret roof (this is missing from the Rubicon M4A3 105mm version).

[ultravanillasmurf]

Thanks.

There are some pictures here: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4_105mm/m4_105mm.html

Always good to get some confirmation of Internet derived information.