M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Project CLOSED!

[Rubicon Models]

M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car

Once again, a US vehicle... a quick quote from Wikipedia...

The M8 light armored car, the "Greyhound", entered combat service with the Allies in 1943. It was purpose designed to serve as the primary basic command and communication combat vehicle of the US Cavalry Reconnaissance Troops.  The M8 first saw action in Italy in 1943 and was used by the US Army both in Europe and in the Far East. In the latter theater, it was used mostly on Okinawa and the Philippines, and was occasionally employed in its original tank destroyer role as most of the Japanese armor was vulnerable to its 37 mm gun.  Between March 1943 and June 1945, a total of 8,523 units were built.

The M20 armored utility car, also known as the M20 scout car, was a Greyhound with the turret replaced with a low, armored open-topped superstructure and an anti-aircraft ring mount for a .50-in M2 heavy machine gun. A bazooka was provided for the crew to compensate for its lack of anti-armor weaponry. The M20 was primarily used as a command vehicle and for forward reconnaissance, but many vehicles also served as armored personnel carriers and cargo carriers. It offered high speed and excellent mobility, along with a degree of protection against small arms fire and shrapnel. When employed in the command and control role, the M20 was fitted with additional radio equipment. A total of 3,680 M20s were built by Ford during its two years in production (1943–1944).

Objective of our 1/56 plastic kit will be as follow:

- a 2 sprue plastic kit to built either a M8 or M20 armoured car
- two MG arrangements for the M8 - rear mount or ring mount
- open front driver hatch
- external utility toolbox or land mine rack
- simplified interior

[elias.tibbs]

I will have your children.

Would the side skirts be removable? They were sometimes left off if damaged

[Rubicon Models]

Would the side skirts be removable? They were sometimes left off if damaged

I would say "no" in order to minimize part counts to fit into 2 standard sprues, but should be easily converted if needed.

[Pinky]

Fantastic - an armoured car!  I want both the M8 and the M20.

One small point about the .50 cal pintle mount - introduced in mid-1944, it was a folding mount, so the gun tended to sit quite high.  Many early M8s had no .50 cal at all.

The side pannier replaced the mine rack on very late vehicles.  It was a bit more flush with the side skirts than this drawing suggests.  Late vehicles also tend to have another stowage box on the glacis.

If the kit could be designed so that the side skirts are easily cut off, that would be nice.

This is great news - please get it out before Italeri releases theirs!

[Rubicon Models]

The diagram below (highlighted in blue) listed out the major differences between the M8 and M20.  Most of these differences are minor and won't be noticeable without broad knowledge of the vehicle.


Source: Squadron M8/M20 Armored Cars Walk Around (27030)

Because we have to limit the number of parts that can be fitted onto the two sprues, we will unavoidably ignore some of these differences.  For those who are very particular to these omission can make conversion with ease.

[elias.tibbs]

Wheneouldyou expect release?

[Pinky]

The diagram below (highlighted in blue) listed out the major differences between the M8 and M20.  Most of these differences are minor and won't be noticeable without broad knowledge of the vehicle.

I don't think you have any problem here.  It looks as though most of the features you've identified (storage box replacing the mine rack, additional front storage box and first aid kit on the rear) were common to both the M20 and the M8 - they're just features of later production vehicles. 

[Rubicon Models]

More details on the M8/M20 interior... To save sprue space, we have a simplified interior (yet detailed), probably an one piece floor with seats and details, radio and storage compartment on the sides, a total of 3 part counts for the whole interior!

[elias.tibbs]

With the current design, is it possible to use it as an M20 and M8? Or do the parts need gluing so that it can be used as an M20 or M8

[Pinky]

I think the interior is once area where you can get away with significant simplification.  Trying to provide all the parts for both versions would be take up a lot of sprue space - the M8, for instance, had 37mm ammo stowage racks, but these won't be noticeable with the turret in place.  It's probably more important to get the M20 details reasonably accurate, since they'll be visible.

As I mentioned before, the standard pintle mount on the M8 turret was not a normal pintle, but a folding one.  I can provide some photos, but the important point is that the .50 cal sat quite high up when it was in the firing position, whereas in the folded position it almost rested on the edge of the turret. 

[Rubicon Models]

Pinky: We modelled the style of the MG mount based on the Squadron walk-around book and some online historical photo for clarification.  We also need to simplify it for better contact with the ring mount and ease of assembly.  You can attach some more reference photo for us to look at too!

[Pinky]

The first M8s in service didn't have a .50 cal.  There had been a dispute about what its secondary armament should be, which delayed the design of a mounting.  As the cavalry wanted a .50 cal, units stationed in the UK prior to D-Day fitted their own - thus the initial mountings were improvised.  Many of these were M32 truck ring mounts, because this had been tested by the cavalry.  In August 1944 the ring mount was formally approved, but it was never a production feature - it was essentially a field modification.  Meanwhile, a folding pintle mount was finally approved and went into production in mid-1944, even though it was awkward and exposed the gunner to enemy fire.  This feature was less commonly seen on WW2 vehicles, but was the norm for M8s serving in Korea (although the pintle was often retro-fitted). 

This means there were 4 configurations on WW2 M8s:
- no .50 cal at all (hopefully your M8 turret can be built without one)
- improvised .50 cal mount (usually on the front of the turret)
- ring mount (yours looks fine)
- folding pintle (note that vehicles with the late features, like the stowage boxes replacing the mine racks, would normally have the folding pintle)

Here are some photos.  One shows a typical improvised .50 cal mount.  The other 3 show the pintle raised and lowered, and in close-up.  All of these are from Zaloga's book on the M8.  Hope that helps.

[Rubicon Models]

This means there were 4 configurations on WW2 M8s:
- no .50 cal at all (hopefully your M8 turret can be built without one)
- improvised .50 cal mount (usually on the front of the turret)
- ring mount (yours looks fine)
- folding pintle (note that vehicles with the late features, like the stowage boxes replacing the mine racks, would normally have the folding pintle)

Think we have all these figured out, except for the folding pintle.  Will need some type of line drawing or blueprint to draw it... will check!

Thanks!

[Pinky]

Found this on a website called usarmymodels.com.

[Rubicon Models]

Thanks, Pinky!  As it turned out, we have something similar (simplified version) in our digital library.  Here is the closeup drawing: