Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => General Discussions => Topic started by: Rubicon Models on November 20, 2015, 01:23:52 am
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Something of a "in search of excellence" attitude...
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4%20Turret%20Revisited%20151120-1_zpsa3fnrxy2.jpg)
Just for sharing...
;) ;D
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Hmmm - you know how I feel about this one...
This is a good start towards rectifying the 76mm turret. But there is quite a lot more needed to get it to the standard of accuracy of your current kits:
- It's still too square. The actual turret was more rounded, and bulged out towards the lower sides. From the top, the bustle was also more rounded.
- the bustle is too big. The rear face of the bustle was noticeably narrower., and the underside sloped more sharply.
- the mantlet was also more rounded, and didn't slope forward as much. It was also a bit bigger.
- the rear ventilator and mounting brackets for the .50 cal look right.
- the loader's hatch is probably right for an M4A3(76mm), which appeared later the the M4A1(76mm).
- the commander's harsh is still wrong. It was a shallow dome, and the hinge sat flat, not at the odd angle of this one.
- the .30 cal mount is rather odd; it should be a proper cradle, not the triangular shape on this.
- the aerial mounts are too big. The right hand mount should be raised slightly.
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Pinky, this is very much a stop and go project. We have done a lot of research through printed publications and the internet. The available information, at times, are very conflicting; but we are pretty sure we are on the right track! We also compared our 3D drawings with existing scale model kits to double confirm our design as well.
Here is a good reference site: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html
As for your comments, we will look into them in length as we progress.
Thanks!
;)
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That's a great site - I hadn't seen that before. Lots of good info. I don't agree about there being a lot of conflicting info - there are some grey areas, but it's pretty clear what the 76mm turret looked like - especially the later version.
Most of what's there supports my observations about Rubicon's 76mm turret - especially the proportions. I can see a version of the commander's cupola which is closer to the Rubicon version, but it's still not accurate (look at the position of the hinges, for example). Anyway, it's good to see you're working on this, as your M4A3 kit is otherwise still one of your best (in my view).
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There are definitely no argument about the shape or look of the 76mm turret. We are quite aware of the issues we previously had. The turret revision is something we are doing on a O&O (on and off) basis in between projects, so don't expect immediate results! But it will eventually be there!!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/M4%20Early%2076mm%20Turret%20151123-1_zpsxgipoy35.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/M4%20Late%2076mm%20Turret%20151123-1_zpswhps28z0.jpg)
;)
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How about an upgrade kit when it's ready? 76 Turrets only? Maybe 2 per box?
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How about an upgrade kit when it's ready? 76 Turrets only? Maybe 2 per box?
Or an M4A3 with HVSS and both turrets styles complete with all bits - similar to the T34/85 with spare T34/76 turret. I would assume the existing moulds would be replaced with one of the new turrets when economical.
I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about M4s to know if an M4A3E8 option would be compatible with an HVSS M4A3.
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Or an M4A3 with HVSS and both turrets styles complete with all bits - similar to the T34/85 with spare T34/76 turret. I would assume the existing moulds would be replaced with one of the new turrets when economical.
I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about M4s to know if an M4A3E8 option would be compatible with an HVSS M4A3.
'M4A3E8' is the designation of the M4A3 with HVSS. This version had the late 76mm turret. I think it would be a nice kit. Not many options though, and Rubicon likes to provide plenty of options.
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'M4A3E8' is the designation of the M4A3 with HVSS. This version had the late 76mm turret. I think it would be a nice kit. Not many options though, and Rubicon likes to provide plenty of options.
There are times we will release kits without options to make them most cost effective!
;)
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'M4A3E8' is the designation of the M4A3 with HVSS. This version had the late 76mm turret. I think it would be a nice kit. Not many options though, and Rubicon likes to provide plenty of options.
See above ^____^.
I was probably thinking of the E2, they apparently also had HVSS but late to post war: edit: or not, check link in detail.
link (http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a3e2jumbo/m4a3e2.html)
Edit: Pinky is correct, (see below), some E2 hulls were used with HVSS but as prototype flame throwers.
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I was probably thinking of the E2, they apparently also had HVSS but late to post war:
Apparently not. According to Hunnicutt's book on the Sherman, an HVSS version was planned in 1945, but it never went ahead because the M26 was in service.
I'd love to see either an M4A3E8 or an M4A3E2 from Rubicon. I think Warlord is doing them both in resin, however a plastic kit from Rubicon would be far superior. Of the two, I think the M4A3E2 might be the more popular with wargamers. I don't think it would be practical to provide them both in one kit, unfortunately.
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M4A3E8....would be awsome !
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So,
Will we be able to buy a 76 turret upgrade kit at some point?
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Possibly?
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Maybe?
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This is our THIRD and probably the final revision of the T23 turret for the M4 Sherman tank!
You might noticed this topic is still under the "General Discussion" section because we still have no schedule to move this project into production. But things will change over time!!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160218-1_zpsgum85j0w.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160218-2_zpsspg8bpvg.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160218-3_zpsuq21quxm.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160218-4_zps9tc9ofho.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160218-5_zpsanmg9hm3.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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That looks like the 76mm turret that we know and love! This is the late version, which is appropriate for the M4A3 (76mm).
The end of the barrel is still a bit over-elaborate. It should just have a simple wider section at the end (it was a removable collar intended to protect the thread). Or it could have a muzzle brake, as they were being fitted by the time this variant of the turret was being produced.
I hope you can find the budget to replace the existing turret in this kit.
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Some minor changes and additions to the revised T23 turret...
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160223-1_zpsbphiddoq.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160223-2_zpssqn0izvw.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160223-3_zpsqt3zl7dg.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20M4A3%20Turret%20160223-4_zpshy1ix7a2.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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Two thumbs up! I like the optional muzzle brake. I assume that the revised cupola hatch no longer has the angled hinge and simply opens 'flat'.
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Looks very good . Is the loaders hatch a separate piece or is it molded closed ? I really like adding crew to all hatches on my tanks :)
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Looks very good . Is the loaders hatch a separate piece or is it molded closed ? I really like adding crew to all hatches on my tanks :)
The loader hatch is moulded-in on the turret piece. Measured it, it's too narrow to fit in any crew... save us an extra part!
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Would the later commander's cupola be a seperate item, or moulded onto the hull?
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Looks good....neede an excuse to build another Sherman.
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Somehow got compelled to change the subject from "M4 Turret" to "M4 Sherman"... some work done on the M4 transmission housing!
What do you think?
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20Transmissions%20160302-1_zps7ozbggg6.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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Would the later commander's cupola be a seperate item, or moulded onto the hull?
I would assume from the colours that it is a separate moulding.
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Somehow got compelled to change the subject from "M4 Turret" to "M4 Sherman"... some work done on the M4 transmission housing!
What do you think?
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/M4A3%20Sherman/New%20Transmissions%20160302-1_zps7ozbggg6.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
The top right one I think would be correct for my film star.
I do need the spare track for the turret....
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Obviously the lower right version is for an early production M4, so this isn't just to update the M4A3 kit.
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The top right one I think would be correct for my film star.
I do need the spare track for the turret....
That one is already available from the M10/M36 kit if I remember correctly. Some spare tracks will be available from the upcoming Q2/16 Allied Stowage Set 1.
;)
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Obviously the lower right version is for an early production M4, so this isn't just to update the M4A3 kit.
The updates are starting to get out of hand, I think. :(
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What about new suspensions?Like M4A3E8 variant...
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What about new suspensions?Like M4A3E8 variant...
Why is everyone wanting a M4A3E8 (Easy Eight)?? Tell us!!
???
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The updates are starting to get out of hand, I think. :(
It's because you really, really want to do another Sherman kit...
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It's because you really, really want to do another Sherman kit...
Had to admit we do... if time permits. The mould making queue is now longer than the 3d drawing queue!
The initial plan is to do just an update on the T23 turret to include BOTH early and late variant on a single sprue. Since there are extra space on the sprue, we decided to add an extra transmission cover... then we are talking about new suspension, new tracks... hahaha!
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Or just do the late 76mm turret - the majority of M4A3 (76mm)s seem to have had this anyway. Then include the HVSS tracks. Bingo - an M4A3E8!
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Or just do the late 76mm turret - the majority of M4A3 (76mm)s seem to have had this anyway. Then include the HVSS tracks. Bingo - an M4A3E8!
We now have much higher standard and expectations on our products now! Need to discuss with studio guys on all these updates before doing anything further!
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What about new suspensions?Like M4A3E8 variant...
Why is everyone wanting a M4A3E8 (Easy Eight)?? Tell us!!
???
Because Fury is in our blood and we can' t wait to get a tank like that
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Why is everyone wanting a M4A3E8 (Easy Eight)?? Tell us!!
???
It's not just because of "Fury". The Easy Eight is one of the few Allied tanks that has anything like the 'cool' factor that many Panzers have (the late model Sherman was arguably a more effective tank than the T-34/85). The HVSS suspension is more modern looking than the VVSS suspension. It's also a pretty good tank in gaming terms.
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Just to set things straight about the movie "Fury"... Ten working M4 Sherman tanks were used. The M4A3E8 Sherman tank Fury was played by an M4A2E8 Sherman tank named RON/HARRY (T224875), lent by The Tank Museum in the UK.
Ref Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_(2014_film)
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Well a VVSS M4A2 would be popular with British and Soviet modellers...
Not sure about a HVSS one, but it could be used to fit the suspension to the A3 hull...
We expect miracles ^___^.
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The attention to technical detail in "Fury" is impressive - the fact that Fury is actually an M4A2E8 is pretty minor. I thought the logs hanging from the side were inaccurate (they were too spindly to stop a shell), but there are photos of M4s carrying logs for use in muddy terrain. The film's depiction of combat is less impressive - particularly the engagement with the German Paks in the field (in which no tactics of any kind are apparent, despite the experience of the US tankers) and the increasingly unbelievable final battle.
I'm amazed that they were allowed to put a venerable museum piece like the M4A2E8 though such relatively rough treatment. It must be in good condition. It's certainly become an iconic tank - along with Oddball's M4A3E4.
As I said before, the basic M4A3 kit is a good one. A new sprue of parts to upgrade it to M4A3E8 standard would be a good way of (1) dealing with the problems with the 76mm turret, and (2) providing a potentially popular version without doing an entirely new kit.
I agree with UVS that an M4A2 would also be nice. I guess that's another opportunity to re-do the 76mm turret.
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There had been a lot of debate on the movie, and I think we should like at it as such... a great war movie, nothing else! It is entertaining, period!
Most tank museums nowadays had running vintage tanks to attract visitors. They usually will either buy fully-restored armoured vehicles or those in poor working condition and then restore them to running order. Also with the amount of M4 being manufactured, don't think it will be difficult to find a handful in good running order. German tanks are another story!
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Also with the amount of M4 being manufactured, don't think it will be difficult to find a handful in good running order. German tanks are another story!
That is what T34s and FV432s are for (probably not the time to mention wanting some of the latter....). There is a photograph of an FV432 Stug in the Tankograd FV432 variants book, though none of the Hydra APCs.
Saying that, the last two museums I visited had Grizzly tanks masquerading as M4A1s.
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/grizzling-m4a5-grizzly.html
I still need to post the Southsea pictures.
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There had been a lot of debate on the movie, and I think we should like at it as such... a great war movie, nothing else! It is entertaining, period!
It's when the movie's producers tell you how realistic their film is that they're asking for flak over historical authenticity. Some artistic license is fine (like Fury's Tardis-like interior, and the crew being able to talk to each over inside a moving tank), but some of other stuff that happened was a bit silly. Which is odd, because making it more realistic would also have made it a more compelling film. Oh well...
Most tank museums nowadays had running vintage tanks to attract visitors. They usually will either buy fully-restored armoured vehicles or those in poor working condition and then restore them to running order. Also with the amount of M4 being manufactured, don't think it will be difficult to find a handful in good running order. German tanks are another story!
Right, but they only wheel out their valuable runners on special occasions. Imagine the wear and tear on a 70 year old tank that film-making involves. The amazing thing is that the number of Panzers which are runners is slowly increasing, mostly due to private restorers. I'd love to be involved in a project like that - although I'm not sure where I'd put a fully operational Panzer!
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The reason so many Grizzlys are still in good shape , is that during WW2 they were only used for training in Canada and the UK , so never saw combat . And after the war most users of the Sherman decided in favour of the 76mm gun version , so the Griz was sold off . Some can be seen in the mini series , Band of Brothers as well as a couple in A Bridge Too Far ( look for the dummy Shermans on VW chassis :D ) As a Canadian I would love a model of this tank , maybe a M4A1 / Grizzly 2 in 1 kit . To make the M4A1 a Griz you would just need to add the Canadian 18 tooth sprocket and CDP track, as well as British style turret stowage box .
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As a Canadian I would love a model of this tank , maybe a M4A1 / Grizzly 2 in 1 kit . To make the M4A1 a Griz you would just need to add the Canadian 18 tooth sprocket and CDP track, as well as British style turret stowage box .
And Portugal had them in service until the 'eighties when some people could buy them.
Of course the track and sprocket is the same as the Sexton 2 (hint hint).
The General Steel glacis appears on some non Grizzly tanks as well, I should have a better picture of the Southsea example.