Author Topic: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.  (Read 35619 times)

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 03:08:52 pm »
Rubicon Models just posted pictures of painted samples of the forth coming Kübelwagen. Being painted grey, I couldn't resist but include one of the sample pictures here.



The other pictures can be seen here:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=706.msg10223#msg10223

@Rubicon Models - what color grey was used to paint the Kübelwagen?

Rubicon Models

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 03:24:31 pm »
@Rubicon Models - what color grey was used to paint the Kübelwagen?

It is basically Vallejo panzer grey, followed by Vallejo panzer dark grey (71.056) plus a light spray of aged white for highlights.

Ballardian

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 08:01:04 pm »

 
Quote
Has anyone tried this "Blue Filter for Panzer Grey" product from AK?
- While I haven't yet used the filter for panzer grey, I have been using (in this case the Mig version) of a tan filter for three colour camo for quite a while now. It has proven very useful as it both smooths out colour transitions in modulation type paintjobs while slightly darkening the overall tone - necessary as the modulation tends to create a slightly too bright tone otherwise, as demonstrated on the Rubicon/Heer46 Panther below.



Here's the 'raw' modulation, as you can see the colours are quite bright.




Here you can see that the filter has knocked the brightness back a fair bit.

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 10:49:18 pm »
The colour in photographs would also be affected by the emulsions used and the subsequent processing.

I suspect that the colour would degrade over time, both on vehicles and in the can.

Nowadays, white balance is an issue with digital photographs.

The blue tint to Dunklegrau is a bit elusive - it's not really visible in paint chips from the period, but put that same paint on a large object & the interplay with the light can certainly give it that appearance as Tracks says. I agree with UVS in that colour photos from the period can't be seen as a reliable indication of true colour either, for the reasons he gave. Similarly, vehicles sporting their original paint have had 80 years of fading & weathering & as a consequence are no more indicative of actual colour. The paint on vehicles in collections also seems to be a mixed bag, with wildly inaccurate colours sometimes used in even the best (Bovington's Jadgtiger being one, before it's recent re-paint).
  A faint blue tint can add 'life' to a models otherwise slightly flat colour scheme. Many modellers describe wanting their models to 'pop' on the table or display cabinet & when viewing a small model from a distance, (probably 18-24" on a tabletop) a slight exaggeration of the contrasts of shadows & high-lights brings out the detail.
   

I completely, photos should never be taken for proof when it comes to color. Especially WW2 color combat photos. Even digital images from state-of-the-art cameras and other recording devices can lead modellers down the wrong path. Take for example the two photos below. Both photos show the exact same German half-track, at the exact same event, on the exact same day, at almost the exact same time - they were only taken a few seconds apart. The only difference being two different cameras were used by two different people, and yet look how different the two photos are!



The only thing you can rely one are your trusty Mark-I eyeballs, but even then, what you see has to be correct or accurate. I can tell you that the half-track shown in the photos above looked different to my Mark-I eyeballs. I would say it was less blue than the above photo, but a little be more than the bottom one. However, at that time during the even, how accurately painted was the German half-track?

The most important aspect that new modellers need to aware of is that model paints are produced as if they were going to be applied to a full sized (1:1) vehicle. It is the modeller's responsibility to make for allowances for scale effect, and usually this means smaller the scale, the lighter the shades of paint.

ultravanillasmurf

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2018, 12:47:12 am »
The mark one eyeball is an amazing bit of kit but the whole package suffers from various issues (see the discussions on "that dress".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-31655236/is-this-dress-white-and-gold-or-blue-and-black
Even with the same camera, unless you do a manual white balance (or white balance it against a known "white"), it can vary.

I did some colour comparisons here http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/2017/07/lead-legion-colours.html
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 12:50:54 am by ultravanillasmurf »

EarlyWarGamer

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2018, 09:08:33 pm »
Amazing pair of photos Tracks! Illustrates in one go the perceived differences of cameras and film/digital. Same vehicle, same day, same time, same weather and lighting, different cameras, and one has the blue tint, and one does not!

ripley

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2018, 09:41:13 pm »
Wow what a contrast in how the fake 251 looks . ( check the sprocket/track , it's a rebuilt OT -? ) ) . Personally , I'm partial to the color prints I saw in Squadron / Signal books when I first started to get serious about modelling , way back in the early 70s. Those colors , right or wrong , made an impression on me , and I still judge the paints I use by those colors . I've added shading and washes to the mix but the base colors are still based on those color prints . From the built / painted kit pictures we've posted in this thread , we've all got our own version of what looks right to us in Panzer Grey/Gray . Do we what to talk about our fav Panzer Yellow now ? We probably all have our own favorite of that too . And do we trust the experts to get it right ? Just look at the variations in Panzer Yellow in the Bovington Tiger family  display ...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 09:42:56 pm by ripley »

Ballardian

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2018, 10:43:08 pm »

 That not-251 pic is a perfect example of what's been said here, minor changes in ambient light or a different camera can make a huge difference.
 
Quote
The most important aspect that new modellers need to aware of is that model paints are produced as if they were going to be applied to a full sized (1:1) vehicle
- As Tracks says, the 'actual' tone of the paint applied to a full size vehicle is very likely to look far too dark when applied to our (pretty small) models - significant lightening of the colour is necessary. Some paint manufacturers (notably Mig & AK) do attempt to remedy this through a process they call 'scale reduction' - essentially lightening the colour so that it'll look correct when applied to a scale model (there are plenty of arguments as to the success (or not) of this approach on modelling fora & I'm certainly not looking to start it here).
Perhaps they're trying to cover all the bases, but AK also have a new range out, called 'Real Color', claiming to be exact matches  - I can't comment, not having tried them yet - they're lacquer-based paints like Tamiya/Sanyo Gunze/Lifecolor, which may or may not put people off, but the range is already quite large.   

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2018, 10:52:25 pm »
I'm partial to the color prints I saw in Squadron / Signal books when I first started to get serious about modelling , way back in the early 70s. Those colors , right or wrong , made an impression on me , and I still judge the paints I use by those colors . I've added shading and washes to the mix but the base colors are still based on those color prints . From the built / painted kit pictures we've posted in this thread , we've all got our own version of what looks right to us in Panzer Grey/Gray

Me too! And I think that is why I tend to go with a tint of blue.
And not because blue is my favorite color!  :D

Do we what to talk about our fav Panzer Yellow now ? We probably all have our own favorite of that too.

That is for "The German Panzer Yellow Thread - WW2 Color" topic and tread.  ;)

And do we trust the experts to get it right?

No.

That not-251 pic is a perfect example of what's been said here, minor changes in ambient light or a different camera can make a huge difference.

Exactly, but also the equipment that records the image.

As you can see from the photos, the two pics were taken only seconds apart, so everything (condition, lighting, weather, and so on) is the same except for  the cameras and the person taking the photo.

Pinky

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2018, 10:20:28 am »
Very interesting.   My sister is a professional artist, and can analyse which basic colours will produce any particular shade.  When I showed her the paint chip for so-called Panzer Grey, she mixed it without any blue.  I could never replicate the colour, however.  I think I also prefer the more blue-ish shade as well, which is why I'm not really satisfied with the Vallejo colour I used last time (like the Rubicon Kubelwagons above, it's ended up rather dull looking).  Ultimately the precise shade comes down to personal preference.

An even more difficult colour is olive drab.  Every paint chip points to it being brownish, but it looks better on models if it's more of a green.  Perhaps I'm also influenced by the Squadron/Signal books Ripley mentioned.  I guess that should be a different topic though.

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2018, 10:46:58 pm »
More Rubicon Models in Panzer Grey.
Looking good, but IMO, it looks like they went a little overboard with the chipping on the Panzer IV. In the other pictures this is more obvious.
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=544.msg10333#msg10333


Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2018, 11:34:05 pm »
Has anyone tried AK's Panzer Grey Modulation Set?
If so, comments?

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2018, 11:28:56 pm »
Below is a picture of a German motorcycle painted in Panzer Gray which can be found at the Beachhead Museum in Anzio, Italy.

I asked if the motorcycle was restored and/or repainted. I was told that it's original. I had to ask because while the paintwork on the motorcycle looks old, it is in good condition. I was expecting to see more scratches, scuffs, and chipping of the paint work, but just because it doesn't have lots of scratches doesn't mean its not the original factory paint.

It was too dark to get a good picture, but after getting permission and getting help in opening all the nearby window curtains to let in more sunlight, I took this picture.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 05:26:07 pm by Tracks »

Tracks

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Re: The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2019, 07:28:30 pm »
A while back a friend was telling me about a color mixture he uses for Panzer Grey paint.
Using Tamiya paints:
Two parts XF-63 German Grey
Two parts XF-18 Medium Blue (grey-blue in color)
One part XF-02 Flat White

I have been trying it out, and overall its seems to work pretty good as a base color, and I just wanted to make a note of it just in case the information can be useful for others.