The German Panzer Grey/Gray Thread - WW2 Color.

[Tracks]

Hello fellow color enthusiasts. This thread's topic is German Panzer Grey/Gray (Dunkelgrau) during WW2.





Warning: Color facts can be a very intense and complex subject at times.

When you mention "Panzer Grey/Gray", the one thing for sure you are going to hear or read about are multiple answers and responses from people telling you what the actual color should be. Is there such an exact color?

I have lots and lots of books about German WW2 tank camouflage, and even the leading experts in the field cannot seem to agree on this topic. Of course, it does not help that the actual color of the gray used by the Germans during WW2 might have varied from batch to batch and factory to factory. Also, how some paints age and oxidize influence their color. We also have distance and scale to consider, and don't get me started on lighting conditions or how the different colors of dust and dirt (weathering) can have. Oh, and I almost forgot about the finish because the exact same color can appear different depending on if it is a flat finish, semi-gloss finish, or glossy finish (wet).

That being said, what color of Panzer Grey paint do you use on your 1:56 (28mm) scale models?
Humbrol 67 Matt Tank Grey
Mig Dunkelgrau
Poly-S Panzer Gray
Revell 78 Panzergrau
Tamiya XF-63 Panzer Grey (TS-4, Spray)
Testors Panzer Schwarzgrau
Vallejo 70.994 Dark Grey (166)
Vallejo 70.995 German Grey (167)
Vallejo 70.867 Dark Bluegrey (164)
Vallejo 71.054 Dark Bluegrey
Vallejo RAL7021 German Panzer Grey

Other?

You mix your own?

For myself, I have used off the shelf colors, but lately I have been experimenting by mixing my own Panzer Gray color*. For example, the two 1:56 (28mm) scale Panzer 38(t)s you see above are painted in one of my custom colors I have been mixing and experimenting with on my German 1:56 scale miniatures. It is a mix of  three parts Vallejo 70.867 Dark Bluegrey to one part Vallejo 70.816 Luftwafe Uniform WW2. I actually like the results, but I may tweak the primary base color. Maybe four parts Vallejo 70.867 Dark Bluegrey to one part Vallejo 70.816 Luftwafe Uniform WW2 would be better. What do you think?

Do you have any German WW2 vehicles or equipment painted in Panzer Grey/Gray? If so, please share pictures of your work. Also please include what color you used to paint the model.

[ripley]

I've used Humbrol Matt 67 forever it seems , or at least since Humbol renumbered their paints when they got rid of the sets  of Army specific colors  ( late 70s ? ) . I painted a lot of early war 1/35 scale back then and it was about the best and easiest  color to find in all hobby shops . Fast forward 40 years - it seems I only have one tank painted in grey - Vallejo 70.995

As my main interests are now in mid / late war I have no real need for German greys . I mostly use it to give me some early war colored fuel cans and on vehicle tool boxes etc .  IRC the tank is V .995 and the fuel cans are H matt 97 just for a slight difference in base color . I also found that  the V.995 mixed with a little black gives me a good color  for the Panzer black uniforms of my tank troops . Never could get layers of back to look right .

[Tracks]

Here is a new picture of my Marder III (Sdkfz 139).



I had painted this Marder III in the exact same style and colors that I painted the two Panzer 38(t)s shown above. I had some 1:56 (28mm) scale German vehicles (resin kits) that I painted using off the shelf paints. A few were painted with Tamiya XF-63 Panzer Grey and a few were painted with Vallejo 70.867 Dark Bluegrey. However, when I went to retrieve them for a photo shoot I realized I sold them with some other resin kits.

[ultravanillasmurf]

A couple of Panzer 38(t)s.


The Warlord resin is Vallejo Black Grey.

A Panzer IB.

Citadel Mechanicus Grey spray.

[Pinky]

Great topic, Tracks.

I used to use Humbrol's so-called 'Panzer Grey' for many years.  When I switched from enamels to acrylic, I didn't paint historical stuff and didn't have to match colours.  When I got back into historicals, I spent a lot of time trying to match colours to paint chip samples.  This is very difficult, for the reasons Tracks mentions.  My sister is a professional artist, and she helped me to mix Citadel paints to match the chip samples for Panzer Grey and Dark Yellow.  The colours looked great - but I couldn't replicate the exact shade with each batch.  So I went back to the drawing board.  I am now using a Vallejo dark grey that looks about right (I need to check which one).  However, it's a bit dull, and I actually prefer the more bluish tone that Tracks and UVS have obtained.

[elias.tibbs]

I’ve been told that the plastic soldier company spray colours are pretty good.

I’ve only used the US olive drab (which is good), so can’t comment further.

[ultravanillasmurf]

I have found the PSC Panzer Yellow and British Tank Green do not match well with the equivalent Vallejo paints.  Their Green is a bit darker.

No idea on the Panzer Grey.

[Ballardian]

 The PSC British Tank Green is useful, but more (though not exactly) like KG3 than SCC15/British olive drab - so it depends on what point in the war you're painting.
 As to versions of Dunklegrau, the Mig modulation set looks pretty good (I've not used it yet, but have used their Dunklegelb & US olive drab versions - both are very good) - four shades, from shadow to final high-light. They're not the only ones to produce a similar product with both AK Interactive & Vallejo producing paintsets (a link to an in-use review of the AK set: youtube.com/watch?v=_HGlQA9SPgc
& one for the Vallejo:
youtube.com/watch?v=3E6vVPaZkt4) Both benefit from a blue filter (again, both Mig & AK do one) if you're after that faintly blue tinge to your panzer grey.
 Hope that may be of some use to someone

[Tracks]

Blue or No Blue?

One aspect about the Panzer Grey paint I forgot to mention in the original posting was, does it have a blue hue to it or not? This is a debate that has been going on among modellers for sometime with no end in sight.

Now I'm not going to say yes or no to this, but I can tell you that I have seen actual WW2 German vehicles from private collections and museums, and in a few cases were they claimed that the paint finish is original or repainted with authentic surplus paint - makes me wonder where they found that paint - I can see a blue hue to the gray. This being more obvious when the vehicle is outside in the sunlight. That being said, I have also seen varying degree of "blueness" on different vehicles. Sometimes it was only very slight.

Something interesting I noticed is that a lot of the expert modellers mix their own Panzer Grey color, and most of them seem to add a blue to their mix, or later add a blueish-grey over a darker grey. I have noted many of these recipes over the years from modelling books and magazines, but these Panzer Grey recipes are only good to those that think that Panzer Grey might have had a blue hue.

Darker or Lighter?

This next section is mostly for those new to modelling because modellers should be aware that most model paints are produced as if you were going to paint on a full size (1:1) vehicle. Allowances for scale effect are the modeller's responsibility, so remember that the smaller the scale, the lighter the shades of paint you will need. This will give you a more realistic appearance.

Also, because weathering and especially most filters have a tendency to darken a finish, I'd start with a lighter mix if its a dark color like Panzer Grey.

Testing and experimenting is always part of the hobby.

[ripley]

I wonder if the blue tinge was on account of  small discrepancies in the manufacture of said paint , and which ( I assume more than one ) company made it .  US OD had about 5 variations depending on which factory made it and what ingredient was cut back on or replaced altogether due to shortages . I think the German paint supply would be affected to a greatr degree as the war went on e

[ultravanillasmurf]

The colour in photographs would also be affected by the emulsions used and the subsequent processing.

I suspect that the colour would degrade over time, both on vehicles and in the can.

Nowadays, white balance is an issue with digital photographs.

[Ballardian]

The blue tint to Dunklegrau is a bit elusive - it's not really visible in paint chips from the period, but put that same paint on a large object & the interplay with the light can certainly give it that appearance as Tracks says. I agree with UVS in that colour photos from the period can't be seen as a reliable indication of true colour either, for the reasons he gave. Similarly, vehicles sporting their original paint have had 80 years of fading & weathering & as a consequence are no more indicative of actual colour. The paint on vehicles in collections also seems to be a mixed bag, with wildly inaccurate colours sometimes used in even the best (Bovington's Jadgtiger being one, before it's recent re-paint).
  A faint blue tint can add 'life' to a models otherwise slightly flat colour scheme. Many modellers describe wanting their models to 'pop' on the table or display cabinet & when viewing a small model from a distance, (probably 18-24" on a tabletop) a slight exaggeration of the contrasts of shadows & high-lights brings out the detail.
   

[Tracks]

Has anyone tried this "Blue Filter for Panzer Grey" product from AK? I only just learned of this stuff, so I have not.

Also, for me it is somewhat difficult to get this sort of stuff, so I will not be trying it anytime soon. Would like to hear from others that have used this product.

[EarlyWarGamer]

Never heard of this line of products before Tracks!  I am not likely to try it, as I prefer a straight from the bottle approach if at all possible. I can never match the hue when mixing my own colors. Since my models are "toys" and not museum pieces, getting "close enough" to what I visually expected to see using a color straight from the bottle is good enough for my eyes.

[Tracks]

Since my models are "toys" and not museum pieces, getting "close enough" to what I visually expected to see using a color straight from the bottle is good enough for my eyes.

We would very much like to see some of your "toys".
Do have any that are in Panzer Grey?
If so, please share pictures of your work. Also please include what color you used to paint the model.