Two fantastic kit ideas for Rubicon Models -

[elias.tibbs]

Not unusual for warlord’s models or box art/description to be wrong. Their m4 Sherman doesn’t have an m4 Sherman on the front too.

[WeRT]

This is an upscaled PSC kit from 1/72 to 1/56... no comments on its quality.

I found somewhere, posted by someone (dunno who), similar note about Warlord Marder III.
As long as I can agree with building cannon and most part of basic superstructure the down hull and section with wheels and tracks is different. They may use SOME parts and up-scaling them but it's not FULLY up-scaled model.

[ultravanillasmurf]

This isn't really news - there was some discussion about it here when the kit first appeared.  WG have these brain farts from time to time.  Like the initial box art for their Tiger I, which showed a strange hybrid rather than the actual kit. 

The fact that the Marder and Pzr 38t are scaled-up PSC kits does bother me, however.  The Italeri-designed kits give Rubicon a run for their money, but the scaled-up PSC kits are greatly inferior.

Some discussion here: http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=636.msg8144#msg8144

[ultravanillasmurf]

@WeRT, sorry, not quite sure what you mean.

[ripley]

I don't think it's a straight up copy as the PSC kit has more options on the sprue . But I think they used various parts ( in CAD ? ) to design the 1/56 scale kit . Sort of like the Uni Carrier , even the crew figures were the same , just didn't get all the smaller scale options( Vicker MMG , flame thrower version ). Aside from the crew , the Uni isn't really a bad kit , I've built 2 . I'm waiting for a unboxing or build video of the 38 before I get one , or 3 

[ultravanillasmurf]

Same with the Sherman V/VC - two kits instead of one with options.

Just compared the instructions, identical components.

I have not seen the Marder unboxed yet.

[Tracks]

I don't think it's a straight up copy as the PSC kit has more options on the sprue . But I think they used various parts ( in CAD ? ) to design the 1/56 scale kit . Sort of like the Uni Carrier , even the crew figures were the same , just didn't get all the smaller scale options( Vicker MMG , flame thrower version ). Aside from the crew , the Uni isn't really a bad kit , I've built 2 . I'm waiting for a unboxing or build video of the 38 before I get one , or 3 

I have both the 1/56 (28mm) scale Marder III and the 15mm (1/100 scale) Panzer 38t / Marder III kits from PSC.

Yes, ripley is correct. When we are talking about "scaled-up PSC kits", we are not saying they took their 1/100 scale (15mm) molds and made 1/56 scale versions of the same exact mold. No, clearly this is not the case because if you look at the sprues - the sprues from the 1/56 Marder III and the sprues from the 15mm Panzer 38t with Marder III option - you will see some similarities of course, but you will also see that they are completely different bits and pieces. They are different kits.

When PSC made that 1/56 scale plastic Marder III kit for Warlord (WLG), they didn't just take their existing 15mm (1/100 scale) pieces and just make them bigger. That just wouldn't work well at all. However, they also didn't have to start from scratch either. What they did was to use what details and information they already had - this includes any CAD files - to make the new kit.

I like the new plastic Marder III kit because it is a good kit. Overall, I think the new plastic Marder III is well wroth adding to any model and/or gaming collection.

@EarlyWarGamer: The Sdkfz.139 is more early war than anything else, but when you say "Early War", are you only interested in the war years before December 7th, 1941?

[WeRT]

@WeRT, sorry, not quite sure what you mean.

Mostly what ripley & Tracks said in his last post.   

When we are talking about "scaled-up PSC kits", we are not saying they took their 1/100 scale (15mm) molds and made 1/56 scale versions of the same exact mold. No, clearly this is not the case because if you look at the sprues - the sprues from the 1/56 Marder III and the sprues from the 15mm Panzer 38t with Marder III option - you will see some similarities of course, but you will also see that they are completely different bits and pieces. They are different kits.

[ultravanillasmurf]

I do not have the PSC or the Warlord Pz38t kits so my comments are based on observation and previous experience.

I agree that the sprues are not scaled up, but as Ripley says the CAD files are reused. I assume the sprue layouts are different between the 20mm and 15mm scale versions as well.

I have just noted that the Sherman V has a few detail features not present on the PSC instructions.

[elias.tibbs]

So with upscaled it’s not a literal male the frame bigger. They’ll use the CAD files. Add some details. Change the layout of he frame and usuallybtye parts that require flying together.

It is however not designed as a 1:56 kit though, and that will cause it to differ slightly.

[Pinky]

I think the up-scaling leads to parts which are too thick, because 15mm parts are generally overscale.  The sides of the Warlord Universal Carrier are the equivalent of medium armour, and the way they placed the rivets makes it hard to hide this.  The Sherman V is similarly chunky, and while I was okay with it previously, I think I'm going to replace mine with the new Rubicon Hybrid Firefly.

[EarlyWarGamer]

"@EarlyWarGamer: The Sdkfz.139 is more early war than anything else, but when you say "Early War", are you only interested in the war years before December 7th, 1941?"

No sir, not quite.  Early war for me entails the more interesting (to me) early weapons, and a polyglot of nations, introduced roughly:

Sep 1939 = Germany, Poland, Russia
Nov 1939 = Finland
Apr 1940 = Denmark, Norway, Britain
May 1940 = Belgium, France, Britain
Sep 1940 = Italy (Africa),
Oct 1940 = Italy (Greece)
May 1941 = Handful of Nations (Crete)
Mar 1941 = Germany (Africa)
June 1941 = Germany, Russia, Finland

That is basically 10 major players, with all sorts of scenario options.

My mental image is that the early war period probably ends by mid-summer of 1942 (probably before Dieppe, but maybe not).   By that point Germany has made it through the first Russian winter.  Mid-war takes over from that point, and includes up to but not including Overlord.  Late war for me is anything from June 1944 until the end.

I don't mean to be Euro-centric, but I am pretty much the guy who buys and paints the minis, and I cannot afford to get into island hopping in the Pacific.  But Wake, Guadalcanal and Tarawa would be my go-to battles were I ever to branch out.

I have nothing against the deluxe armor from later years, and understand the attraction, but just find it more interesting gaming where armor is not all about "Big Cats", and has maybe a 50/50 chance of having rivets!

[ripley]

I have a love for rivets as well . the 38(t) , the M13/40 and Semovente , the Lee/Grant and not to forget , the Ferdinand

Just look at those rivets 

[tyroflyer]

I agree with EWG on the early war issue. It isn't a before and after Pearl Harbour thing so far as I'm concerned.

[Pinky]

I have nothing against the deluxe armor from later years, and understand the attraction, but just find it more interesting gaming where armor is not all about "Big Cats", and has maybe a 50/50 chance of having rivets!

I largely agree with your take on what would be regarded as the "early war" period, although in your posts you've tended to focus a lot on the very early period, which is often termed the "Blitzkrieg" period i.e. basically the invasions of Poland, France and the Balkans, and Operation Barbarossa.  This is a fascinating period because arguably tactics were more important than technology - the Germans achieved the most when they had little or not technical advantages.

My particular interest is the war in the desert, so the early war vehicles I'd particularly like to see are those that saw service in North Africa. That means lots of rivets - the Italian tanks and early British cruisers, for instance.