Zimmerit or not Zimmerit?

[Rubicon Models]

Some Background History:

Zimmerit was applied to some tanks produced from December 1943 to 9 September 1944.  Application of Zimmerit was usually done at the factory.  In general, vehicles already in service were not coated with Zimmerit.  Zimmerit was discontinued from factory application on 9 September 1944 and from field application on 7 October 1944.  This was due to concerns that projectile impacts could ignite it.  These proved false, but the order was never rescinded.  Applying and drying the paste added days to the production of each vehicle, which was unacceptable as there was a shortage of tanks.  Only early models of Tiger II have Zimmerit applied; not much info on other tank models.

Question: Do you want to see some German tanks with Zimmerit?

Issues: There are at least over 10 different patterns for different tanks... which one to choose?

Comment please!

[Tracks]

Question: Do you want to see some German tanks with Zimmerit?

No.
Please no.

Issues: There are at least over 10 different patterns for different tanks... which one to choose?

Not an issue if you go with No Zimmerit.

There are several reasons why encourage No Zimmerit, but one of the main reasons is that it is so much easier to add the Zimmerit to a model than to remove Zimmerit that has already molded into a model. Overall, by not having Zimmerit molded into the plastic parts, the modeler/gamer has been given a better choice. That is, to include Zimmerit or not. If the Zimmerit is already molded into the plastic parts, the modeler/gamer has no choice but accept it. Even if it was done incorrectly or does not have the pattern they want.

It's simple enough to add Zimmerit to a model, but impossible to remove Zimmerit from a model if its already molded into the plastic. By not having the Zimmerit already molded into the plastic parts, you give the modeler/gamer even more choices! Not only does this allow the modeler/gamer decide if they want Zimmerit or not - using whatever method they prefer - but it solves your issue of "There are at least over 10 different patterns for different tanks... which one to choose?" because if the modeler/gamer chooses to add Zimmerit, they can choose which pattern to use on their model.

In short, please no Zimmerit.

[Tracks]

I forgot to mention that most model companies that mold Zimmerit onto the plastic parts do not do it correctly. They often making the Zimmerit look to perfect and strangely uniform. However, Zimmerit was applied by hand onto the surfaces, and as a result there was a lot of imperfections and small variations (regardless of pattern) in the overall texture. Also, no two of the same vehicle would look exactly alike when it comes to applying Zimmerit. So, leaving it to the modeler/gamer to add the Zimmerit using whatever method they prefer solves this issue as well.

Some gamers (usually not modelers) might not like the idea of adding Zimmerit, but trust me, it's simple enough to add your own Zimmerit to a model and the result is most rewarding. Yes, it does add more time to the completion of a model, but that is nothing compared to the overwhelming choices you get if the model kit doesn't have pre-molded Zimmerit.

[tyroflyer]

Would someone like to make the case for molded Zimmerit? The argument it's easier to add than remove seems pretty strong, unless you plan to provide both versions in the kit, which isn't likely.

[Ballardian]

 Broadly I agree that molded on Zimmerit is seldom satisfactory - for reasons already stated by Tracks, so would generally prefer it not to be added.
 This can however penalise those without the skill or experience of adding it themselves - that year of application covers a lot of tanks, Jadgpanzers etc. Once before when this forum was discussing the merits of producing a Tiger II this came up & my solution would be the same - produce a Zim  transfer set, which should be quite achievable at this scale.
While I certainly agree that the real reason for Zim's discontinuation was that it was essentially a waste of time (magnetically attached anti-tank charges were uncommon amongst the allies), the stories of it catching fire may actually have some basis in fact. A recent test of Zim recipes, in which benzine was a significant constituent showed that if the Zim were not given sufficient drying time (the several days mentioned) before painting & sending to theater, the result was indeed flammable, though the resultant fire would have been unlikely  to jeopardise the vehicle

[ripley]

Another vote for no Zim . As others have said it easier to add than remove .  Maybe release Zim as a resin or photo etch  add on kit , but that might get complicated as some vehicles ( Panther , Stug III ) had various patterns depending on company of manufacture . Some even had one pattern on hull and  another on turret    Only  about half of the Tiger IIs had Zim . The 50 Porche turreted version ( 47 , first 3 prototypes -no { Bovington Tiger II } ) and about 200 of the Henschel turreted version

[ultravanillasmurf]

And another vote for no Zim.

I do agree with Ballardian, both about the difficulty in producing zimmerit on models (just look at some of the "professional" efforts), and that transfers might be a good solution.

[EarlyWarGamer]

No Zim.

[Cat]

Not molded on, but the photo-etch idea sounds very promising!

[Ballardian]

 As far as the multiple patterns goes, if you were to go down the transfer/resin/PE route I don't think it'd be necessary to instantly replicate all the variations - you could get away with one type for each vehicle you wish to apply it to (at least initially, if the interest was there) - so you'd have one type for PzIII's, one for IV's etc as you'd have to produce sets for each vehicle individually anyway.
 Here's a (reasonably comprehensive) list of vehicles by pattern & as you can see, there's a lot of cross-overs:

 Vertical columns of horizontal ridges
 Pz III
 PzIV H & J
 Pz.Bef.Wg IV
 StuG III
 StuG IV
 Jagdpanzer IV (all three variants)
 Sturmpanzer IV
 Flakpanzer IV (both Wirblewind & Ostwind)
 Panther Ausf A & G
 Tiger I & II
 Jagdtiger

 Horizontal columns of vertical ridges
 StuG III Ausf G
 Pz IV Ausf H
 Panther Ausf G

 Horizontal columns of vertical ridges with one-way diagonal grooves
 Panther Ausf G

 Horizontal columns of vertical ridges with vertical grooves separating the coulmns int small boxes
 StuG III
 StuG IV
 Panther Ausf A & G

 Small squares
 StuG III
 StuG IV
 Jagdpanther

 'Waffle' pattern (square)
 StuG III Ausf G
 Sturmhaubitze
 Panther Ausf A
 Tiger I Ausf E

 horizontal columns of diagonal ridges with the diagonals changing direction for each column
 Pz IV Ausf H & J

 Horizontal columns of vertical ridges with diagonal grooves forming rhombuses
 Panther Ausf A (G?)
 
 Vertical columns of horizontal ridges, separating the columns into small boxes
 StuG III & IV
 Panther  Ausf G

 'Waffle' with rhombuses
 StuG III & IV

 Continuous vertical ridges
 Panther Ausf A
 (apparently a number of SdKfz 251 Ausf D's also received this pattern, though I've never seen an example)

 As you can see, there is quite a lot of cross-over, but the first pattern covers nearly everything so if you were going to to Zim, doing that one would give you the greatest coverage.

[ultravanillasmurf]

Not molded on, but the photo-etch idea sounds very promising!

Ballardian is suggesting the 3D transfer method.
Something like this:
http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsArmor.html

[Rubicon Models]

Ballardian is suggesting the 3D transfer method.

Yes, we are also experimenting with similar technology, but the results up until now are not promising.  We are exploring different material right now and hopefully will find some solutions.  Stay tuned!

[elias.tibbs]

Nope. Not on plastic at least.

[Jimmy_P]

Add another vote for no zimmerit! Definitely not on plastic kits at least, resin options it's not so bad.