Jimmys WIP Thread

[ripley]

I think I would  go with Vellejo Model Air Olive Drab .043 , should be easyist paint to pick up these days . A few of those companies are gone now , well I guess that article did come out 16 years ago .  Funny , the chip shows Humbroll 155 as looking greenish , my tin is a more brown shade to my eye , but Humbrol has changed the formula / ingredients from time to time over the years .  Its funny how your eye works , find a reasonable shade of OD  or German Grey and paint a large scale ( 1/32 ) tank , looks great , use the same color on a 1/72 tank and it looks wrong , Don't quite understand why that happens , but lightening the color seems to work on smaller scales .

[Pinky]

Ripley - apparently colours will always appear darker on a smaller object.  That's why colour chips can be confusing.

[Jimmy_P]

Sounds like a plan. Brown wash though (or green?)?

[ripley]

I use a GW brown wash on the tank . and a GW black wash on the metal parts of the track , followed by a watered down brown wash

[ultravanillasmurf]

I have used Citadel Agrax Earthshade and the camoshade on them, earthshade for the grubbier ones.

http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=281.msg4838#msg4838

[Ballardian]

 It's a never ending quest to find the 'right' shade, but the Mig Ammo OD modulation set is pretty decent - 4 shades of US OD from  shadow to final high-light, I did some 15mm M4A3's & an M26 a while ago, & yes, I definately way overdid the chipping

[ripley]

. They look like they've been through a hell of a battle , very nice . All that's missing is a disorderly pile of stowage and crew kit 

[Tracks]

Ripley - apparently colours will always appear darker on a smaller object.  That's why colour chips can be confusing.

Let me jump on the band wagon and add my $0.02 worth.

Colors are strange because they change depending on lighting, object surface and material, background color(s), view angle, and view distance. These and several other factors play a significant role in how we perceive a color. Lighting being the most significant of course.

Supporting what Pinky stated, if we take one large and one small object and paint them the exact same color, that color might appear different under certain conditions, and regardless of size it appears to change at distance. That is, from a distance a color might appear lighter or darker depending on other conditions.

And don't get me started on using actual color photographs - one of the least reliable sources for determining a "true" color. Especially old WW2 color photographs. I will save these details as to why for maybe another post because it will be a very long description and lots of details.

Making it more difficult is that most of the time a recording device (a camera for example) and your eye almost ever see/record the same color. Using the two pictures below as an example:





This may be a surprise to learn, but both the Pak 36 and the Panzer 38(t)s are painted in the exact same Panzer Gray color. The Pak 36 looks almost back because of many factors. The Panzer 38(t)s also appears lighter color because of several factors.  At the time when I took the picture, to my eye the Pak 36 was lighter in color and the Panzer 38(t)s were darker in color than the actual pictures.

[ultravanillasmurf]

Yup, colour is weird (I did a two day course on it back in the 'eighties, I felt no wiser afterwards).

Lighting is important, I did some comparisons here:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/lead-legion-colours.html

Sorry, real life interfered and interrupted  my ramblings.

One of the reasons why smaller things look darker is how our brains interpret things, binocular vision only works out to a short distance after that ranging is dependent on how things appear (which is why 3D films often look odd). Reversing the logic if you have a smaller version of an object, your brain takes the size cues and reinterprets what the eye sees.

Photographs are dependent on the recording media, chemical recordings vary dependent on temperature, processing and other settings. Digital recording adds software processing at the recording stage and the "developing" stage.

Unless you are using RAW together with fixed exposure and aperture settings, it is difficult to get consistent colours.

[Tracks]

Unless you are using RAW together with fixed exposure and aperture settings, it is difficult to get consistent colours.

Even then you can have some difficulty with consistent colors.

Supporting what ultravanillasmurf just said above, I'm edger to find the comparison "Color Test" picture  I made a very long time ago. I'm hoping it is still on an old HD because I could not find it in my archived data.

It is very similar to what ultravanillasmurf did above (see his link). For my card I used eight different standard colors (black, white, yellow, blue, red, green, orange, and purple) painted on white card into 2.5cm x 2.5cm squares creating a colored checkered board (sixteen squares). Two sets of eight colors side-by-side on the same card. I then photographed the card with direct outdoor sunlight (very clear day), outdoor complete overcast, using "Daylight" light bulb lighting, standard incandescent lighting, fluorescent lighting, and several other different other lighting sources. The results were remarkable because the colors appeared to be completely different at times! Did I mention that when I took the pictures, I also used two different angles - 90 and 45 degrees - for each lighting source as well as a few different camera settings.

I also wanted to do the same tests by spraying the entire card with a clear gloss. However, I never got around to doing this.

Studying colors is a tricky business.

As a side note, I would like to add one more thing to this topic. I have met a few people that restore WW2 combat vehicles, and most like to be as accurate as possible right down to the color of paint. One individual even used actual surplus WW2 American army green paint (olive drab) to paint the vehicles. This surplus paint was of the earlier war color, and he gave me some in a small bottle. Of course I compared this with most of model paints I had. None were a perfect match, but a few came close. I think the old Humbrol MC21 "French Artillery Green" came pretty close. Of course the color changes depending on the weathering and other stuff applied to the model - including any filters.

For those that use Vallajo paints, I find that Brown Violet (70.887) is pretty close, but not a perfect match, for the Humbrol MC21 "French Artillery Green".

[Jimmy_P]

Colour is very weird! I've always found these sorts of discussions fascinating, even though most of the nuances in shade, etc are lost on me.

So my local store didn't have the VJ Model Air range - I got the Model Colour Olive Drab, but it does look very much in the brown category to me. Having now looked online, it seems that it is quite a different colour (doh!), so will try and order the Air version of the Olive Drab from somewhere. In the mean time, I might try using the Brown Violet and see how it looks as I already have that.

So with the painting having to wait I stupidly thought I'd try playing around with the breech assembly. Having looked at a lot of photos of the Hellcat to try and work out how best to fit the crew into the turret, it also was obvious that that there was some detailing missing (and wrong!) on the kit and so thought I'd have a go adding some brass rod - kind of inspired by UVS' work on the Waffentrager - but unfortunately less successful (partially complicated by the fact I'd already added the Rubicon crew and undercoated the turret interior).

The original (real) Hellcat:



Attempt to copy:






So, with hindsight I think if you want to do this properly you'd need to scratchbuild the breech assembly as it's not quite right (and obviously do it before starting to paint or adding the crew!). Not sure if my bodge job is worth it and tempted to leave it out (the rod isn't glued in yet). What do you guys think?

[ripley]

I think with a little paint it will look the part . These kits are small enough , you don't have to go all scale scratch build unless your really crazy  Shep Paine , the guy who built all those awesome 1/32 Monogram tank model dioramas  ( and 1/48 wingy things ) back in the 70s  had the right idea , just use what ever looks the part , the human eye will fill in most of the missing details and over look things that under careful scuitany would stand out .  For example he used Airfix wagon wheels as fans on his Panzer IV , took me 20 years the realize they ere the wrong shape And I've got books with pictures of Panzer IV engine compartments , it was just so cool you thought it "looked" right .  Those family and friends who look at your " toy " collection wouldn't know what the vehicle is never mind the extra detail you added to it . In fact a lot of model tank builders probably wouldn't know what improvements you've made to the kit unless they've actually  built one themselves .  I couldn't tell you if the shape of your breach guard is correct , I'm not up on the Hellcat , but I would know that it was missing because all tank guns have a guard of some sort to protect the crew . I've added some to my Panzer 3 , 4 with open turret side doors , as well to my  1941 T-34s  because its what you see when you look in the hatch . Are they the right size and shape , no but they look the part which is good enough for me . Same can be said for the internal details on the turret side doors , its not exact but looks the part

[ultravanillasmurf]

That looks good. Following Ballardian's idea, you might want to add the lever on top of the breech.

As mentioned above, you just need to give the impression

What thickness rod did you use? I have 0.4mm (4mm scale handrails), 0.7mm (7mm scale handrails) and 1.0 and 1.5mm (various reinforcement and gun barrels).

By the way, are you going to call your M18 "Patsy" (or more obscurely "Rachel")?

[Jimmy_P]

Thanks. Your Pz3 does look cool!


Hmm, good point on the thickness of the rod - I guess it's probably 1mm ish, was just what I had to hand. Think I will try and get some thinner rod and try again?

I don't tend to name tanks tbh! 

[Jimmy_P]

Loooong overdue an update! Finished the Hellcat and Rubion M20 a while ago, but never posted any pictures. For some reason didn't really pick up on the fact that the breech guard I'd made wasn't long enough until I'd finished it. Lesson learned anyhow! Pleased with how the colour came out in the end (I think).