Ideas for future tank kits

[ultravanillasmurf]

I too remember the Matchbox kits, though they were out of my pocket money range at the time (I did save up and buy the Comet, the tank  is long gone but I suspect the crater may be in a box some where).

I was thinking more that there were opposing models available allowing building of matched forces rather than combined box sets - this would allow resellers to  offer deals etc. That is the reason I built the Panzer III so the Crusader would have some opposition to go with the Perry's figures.

I understand Pinky's point, combining smaller models together might offer better value, but Rubicon are already doing single sprue sets for the add on kits.

An opposing Generals set might also work, two generals and their vehicles.

[H0ffmn]

Why even bother with a double kit? What's  wrong with an inexpensive single sprue kit, which would be priced less than a regular priced double kit?That second kit could possibly be a vehicle that you might not want or use.
 The old Nitto 1/76 kits were packaged that way. They put the Sturmgeschutz IIID kit together with a Schwimmwagen,a early war vehicle with a mid to late war car. I ended up throwing away the schwimmwagen kits away.

[Ballardian]

I have to put in a vote for some British vehicles - (playing Brits & Germans means I don't really need Americans or Soviets) - Pinky's request for a Valentine is a good one, there's plenty of uses for the chassis, with the Bishop (ugly as it is) & Archer being obvious choices. That it covers the whole war from 2pdr/3" howitzer armed MkI's  to the 75mm toting MkXI, so any Brit (or Soviet) player could include one.
 The Western Desert is quite a popular gaming arena so the various Cruiser models would have a place on many shelves, along with Matilda II's.
 Personally, with my focus on late war & post 45 I'd really like a plastic Comet - given late war's popularity I'd imagine it'd be as popular as a Cromwell.
 (I've just picked up WG's new resin Comet & it's a bit of a curates egg - the casting is nice & clean, it goes together nicely, but it appears to actually be a Comet B - a post war version - fish-tail exhausts, no port on the turret roof for the smoke launcher - but no banks of smoke launchers for the B's turret sides either & no lifting rings on the upper edges of the glacis.)
Cromwell & Churchill - well they're undeniably popular choices, so surely there's room for more than one in the market?
 Challenger/Avenger -  despite their sharing a chassis, this one is a big ask, as they'd have to be a stand alone kit, not a Cromwell add-on, but are they less desirable to gamers than the M10/Achilles? (I realise only 200 Challengers were built & nobody seems to know how many Avengers - probably fewer than 100 - but fewer than 500 Tiger II's were built & no-one questions their suitability as a subject.)
 For the Germans, the SPG & Jagdpanzer variants of the PzIV would be great & I second the desire for flak variants of assorted halftracks.
 I'd welcome any or all of these as Rubicon have demonostrated their ability to produce a superior product.

(How about this for a double kit )

[Pinky]

I wouldn't mind a Comet either.  It doesn't have many options, but it'd be nice to have one in plastic.  I was disappointed to discover that Warlord's new one is resin.

[ultravanillasmurf]

I would love a plastic Comet, I have a Die waffenkammer resin kit. Nice model, odd resin.

It has been a while, I would need to check on exhaust pattern. And finish it.

As I mentioned before, in Bolt Action it is equivalent to a Panther.

[Ballardian]

The JTFM Comet is a nice model - definately a wartime Comet A. Jeffs resin does seem to occasionally surprise in its resistance to having paint put on it - I can't speak to this, as every model of his I've bought has behaved impeccably & shown no desire to shuck off its paint - a good plastic primer usually seems to be the answer, but I've used PSC sprays & cheap artists spraypaints (mostly Molotov & occasionally Montana) & had no problems whatsoever (in fact the first vehicle I ever bought from him, an M4A3 never even got washed in soapy water first & still has all its paint, despite considerable handling & occasional dice impacts).
 Pinky - the WG Comet is nice, I wouldn't let it being resin put you off but it's not a wartime Comet - it's a B - I'm not sure how this happened as there are plenty of sources for pictures & blueprints out there The easiest way to tell them apart is the exhausts - see below, firstly an A, (the hood over the exhaust wasn't always present) then a B;

[Pinky]

Okay, lets consider the M13/40 anyway., because there's no guarantee Warlord/Italeri will do it properly.

The basic M13/40 was a badly flawed design, which fragile armour and poor cross-country performance.  Its best feature was its gun, which was acceptable by 1942 standards.  It struggled to cope with the desert conditions, but then so did many British and German vehicles.  Nevertheless it was an important tank for most of the Desert War, if only because it formed a big part of the Axis tank forces.  When it comes to designing a plastic kit, the riveted construction presumably means more parts.  But the narrow tracks mean the suspension won't require many parts, which leaves space on the sprue for more options.


The next version was the M14/41.  The improvements were minor, and the external differences limited to full length mudguards and revised engine grilles.  So it shouldn't be hard to include.  It would be good if the kit could include spare tracks, jerrycans and other stowage.


The Semovente 75/18 was the most important variant, and the most effective Italian AFV in the desert.  Initially built on the M13/40 chassis, later vehicles were based on the M14/41.  They were also used by the Germans, an added bonus.  This variant would require the parts for a revised superstructure and gun, and a partial interior - quite manageable.


It would be even better if the Semovente 90/53 was also an option, although this involved a lengthened hull, so it's probably not practical.  It's a rather cool looking SP gun though.

[Pinky]

Pinky - the WG Comet is nice, I wouldn't let it being resin put you off but it's not a wartime Comet - it's a B - I'm not sure how this happened as there are plenty of sources for pictures & blueprints out there The easiest way to tell them apart is the exhausts - see below, firstly an A, (the hood over the exhaust wasn't always present) then a B;

No resin for me.  Especially resin and metal hybrid kits. 

Perhaps Warlord should open their kit design process up for comment, like Rubicon does.  Someone would have told them they had the wrong version.

[ripley]

Would be nice if Warlord listened to comments and suggestions .  I've been trying to get them to stop casting all the stowage on their tanks, example the Sherman DD . Who wants 3 tanks with the same messy pile of stowage on the engine deck and fenders ? Not to mention a lot of stuff is molded in places real crews wouldn't put stuff , blocking vision ports , the turrets ability to turn, the guns ability to depress , and covering air intakes and exhausts ( fire hazard ! ) . I would rather have the vehicle molded clean with stowage as parts you add , where you choose . Kind of like Rubicon's stowage sets  .  Even with  their plastic kits ( Italeri should know better ) they leave off parts ie  on the rear of the Tiger , there should be 2 armoured covers , left and right , covering the idler adjustment bolts . They completely forgot to mold the right side one .

[ultravanillasmurf]

Some resins are better than others. Empress resins are far better than the soft resins used by Warlord etc.

[tyroflyer]

This discussion has made me think about how we decide what models we would like to see. I suggest the following either is, or perhaps should be, part of the thought process

- number built
- length of service (could be short because you are Polish or the design is poor/outdated )
- number actually used operationally (an example of this is the British Cruiser Mk V where a substantial 1,771 were built but never left the UK)
- presence in significant battles (Ferdinand's at Kursk for example)
- significance on the battlefield (Tiger)
- bang for the buck in points cost for the ruleset (personally I think if decisions are made on this basis then some things are too cheap or too expensive and the points cost is wrong)
- the aesthetics of the vehicle (doesn't affect me much but I could be in the minority)
- popularity of the army vehicle belongs to (German army more popular than Italian perhaps)
- use by more than one army

Just my thoughts. You might be motivated by something totally different

[bull-nut]

Ballardian: That's an interesting pic of the Comet with Normandy cowl you have there. I'm not sure how the crew would utilise the gun crutch on the rear deck though, it looks like the cowl would foul the gun. Every image of a Comet with the cowl fitted that I have seen has a break in the middle to allow the gun to sit properly, is yours a pre-production model using the Cromwell cowl maybe? Do you have any idea when/where the pic was taken?

[ripley]

That's not a Cromwell , it's a late war Comet ( return rollers ) . The gun would lie just above the cowl in the gun crutch . The 2 piece cowl on Cromwells  was a field mod until the production cowl was issued . I've seen pictures of some that look very home made , maybe from deep wadding trunks off other types of tanks ? I believe the the need for the cowl was noted during service in Normandy , when the tank sat in ambush with the motor running , and having the exhaust drift over and choke out the crew .



Note , Crusader style turret box and a MG 42 on the turret !

[Ballardian]

Just in the interest of muddying the waters further, here's a pick of a Comet A with the split cowl over the exhaust & a couple more with the continuous one - most images in action show no cowl - it goes to show that the British army was not one to be bothered by the bugbear of consistency
 The pic is a fairly recent one (I couldn't tell you the exact date or where the tank is from - it's on; primeportal.net/tanks/a34_comet.htm) I can tell you where the middle example comes from - I believe its still outside Camp Curragh in Co. Kildare Ireland, one of the batch sold to the Irish army.
 Neither the WG, or (I believe) the JTFM kits model the vane site in front of the commander's cupola, but I imagine it'd be bugger to do in resin or pewter.

[sandsmodels]

as long as i can do some great conversions on them i don't mind!