Author Topic: Codename: Sherman 2016 - 3pc Differential Housing Conversion 210122  (Read 342624 times)

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2016, 01:59:38 am »
[I will edit these in order to expand on the information and correct any errors.  Please point out anything that's wrong!]

Starting with the M4A1,this was the first Sherman variant to be designed.  Its had cast hull, which was a relatively advanced feature at the time.  Its high profile was dictated by the use of a 9 cylinder radial aircraft engine, which sat higher than a 'normal' engine (there being no dedicated tank power plant available at the time).  The M4A1 went though 4 distinct phases during its production history (these are not official designations):

Initial production: M3 bogies, bolted transmission housing, direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This was the first Sherman type to see active service, and was used by the British 8th Army (as the Sherman II) and by the US Army in North Africa.  A few survived to serve through the Italian campaign.  In British service in North Africa, the M4A1 was equipped with sand shields, brackets and rails for the sunshield device and a blanket box on the turret.

Early production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type - although some still had the bolted transmission housing), periscopes instead of direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This version was introduced during the North African campaign, again with both the British 8th Army and the US Army.  Some also saw service with the US Army in the Pacific.

Mid production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type then later 'sharp-edged' type), periscopes instead of direct vision ports, wide M34A1 mantlet and appliqué armour on the hull sides and right turret cheek.   This is the version that saw service with both the US Army in the Normandy campaign; together with with the M4 it was the principal Sherman variant used by the US Army until the introduction of the preferred M4A3 during 1944.  Some M4A1s were also used by the British in Normandy, although it was one of the less common Sherman types in service with the British.  This version also saw service with the US Army in the Pacific.

Late production: M4 bogies (final production versions had HVSS, although none of these saw service in WW2), cast transmission housing (later 'sharp-edged' type), revised hull with large hatches, 'wet' stowage, and 76mm turret (initially the early type with circular loader's hatch and no muzzle brake, later with the oval loader's hatch and muzzle brake), and sand shields.  The 76mm version saw service with the US Army in the latter phase of the Normandy campaign, and with both the British Army (as the Sherman IIa) and the US Army in Italy; it was gradually replaced in US service by the M4A3 (76mm).  The initial batch of large hatch M4A1s had the 75mm turret, and most if not all of these seem to have been converted into DD tanks.

Distinguishing features: distinctive cast hull (which can be confused with M4 Composite from the front).

As with all Sherman types, there were numerous detail changes throughout production, and features like roadwheels and drive sprockets were interchangeable.  A number of tanks were also rebuilt, so that later features were often added to earlier vehicles.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 09:36:04 pm by Pinky »

Rubicon Models

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2016, 02:05:25 am »
Thanks Pinky.  Something like that is more than perfect!

This will give our studio guys a quick reference guide to look for specific features in each variant, then compare with notes and photos that they have on hand.

Sometime it is difficult to work on drawings just based on our research material (even if they are incorrect).  Definitely will speed up our work without the need to make corrections later on!

The "Sherman Minutia" website is a good "single source" reference, but our staff's English is limited and many times made errors during translation...

BTW, take your time, no rush!

« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 02:13:43 am by Rubicon Models »

ripley

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2016, 08:24:15 am »
You might pick up the Haynes  Sherman Tank book . It gives a overall view of the various production types and changes . Not as good as the Hunicutt book but , at least $150 dollars cheaper  :)  I find with the Haynes book and the Sherman website , I can figure most major types .  It can be difficult sometimes to figure out , as some versions  were built by 4 or 5 different plants . They might be large enough to make all their own smaller cast parts , ie  Drivers hoods , antenna pot or the hull lift rings , or they might get a variety of small parts from a bigger factory ( a lot like the Russian 's T-34 production ) .  I don't think you want to down that road  ::)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 09:04:11 am by ripley »

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2016, 03:42:05 pm »
The M4's development largely tracked the M4A1's, as they were automotively identical, up until the introduction of the 76mm turret.  The M4 was not fitted with the 76mm gun, but it was fitted with the 105mm howitzer (the M4A1 wasn't).  The M4 production history is quite complex, with numerous differences between manufacturers, so the following represents the principal production types.

Initial production: M3 bogies, bolted transmission housing, direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This version was used by the US Army in North Africa; as with the initial version of the M4A1, a few survived to serve through the Italian campaign.  The M4 did not see service with the British Army in North Africa - early production Shermans in British service identified as Sherman Is are usually actually Sherman IIIs.

Early production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type - but some still had the bolted transmission housing), periscopes instead of direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This version was introduced into service with the US Army during the North African campaign.  It was also used in the Pacific.  This version seems to have been relatively rare in British service.

Mid production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type then later 'sharp' type), periscopes instead of direct vision ports, wide M34A1 mantlet, appliqué armour on the hull sides, glacis and right turret cheek, gun travel lock and sand shields.  This version saw service with the British Army and the US Army in the Normandy campaign (and in the latter part of the Italian campaign); together with with the M4A1 it was the principal Sherman variant used by the US Army until the introduction of the preferred M4A3 later in 1944.  This version was also used in the Pacific.
 
Late production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (later 'sharp' type), composite cast/welded hull with large hatches, gun travel lock and sand shields.  During production, the turret type transitioned from the 'low bustle' to the 'high bustle' with oval loader's hatch.  This version saw service with the British Army and the US Army in Normandy, and quite a few were also used by the US Army in the Pacific (particularly in the Philippines and on Okinawa).

M4 (105mm): M4 bogies (late production vehicles had HVSS), 47 degree glacis with large hatches, 'high bustle' turret with 105mm mount (some turrets had a second blower on the bustle; later production vehicles had a commander's cupola instead of split hatch, and .50 cal relocated to a pintle mount), gun travel lock and sand shields.  This version saw service with the US Army in Europe and in the latter stages of the Pacific war (principally the Philippines and Okinawa), and a few were issued to the British (as the Sherman 1B).

Distinguishing features: vertical rear hull with cutaway and distinctive circular air cleaners mounted underneath (on the large hatch hull the rear was sloped and lacked the cutaway); very difficult to distinguish from M4 and M4A3 from the front.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 09:34:50 pm by Pinky »

ultravanillasmurf

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2016, 04:36:47 pm »
Very useful Pinky, keep up the good work.

From my reading of the Sherman site, it sounds like M4A1s were built at the end of the war with HVSS but probably did not reach the front (YMMV) - a bit like Centurions.

Apologies to our Gracious Hosts, but any idea where the BA Sherman 1 fits?

Thanks for the recommendation Ripley, I have seen the book but was not sure how good it was.

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2016, 05:47:49 pm »
Apologies to our Gracious Hosts, but any idea where the BA Sherman 1 fits?

It's a 'mid production' M4, as per my post above.  Consistent with the fact that the Normandy campaign is one of the most popular with WW2 wargamers, it's a Normandy era vehicle, as used by the British and US Army. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 06:23:39 pm by Pinky »

ultravanillasmurf

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2016, 08:46:30 pm »
Apologies to our Gracious Hosts, but any idea where the BA Sherman 1 fits?

It's a 'mid production' M4, as per my post above.  Consistent with the fact that the Normandy campaign is one of the most popular with WW2 wargamers, it's a Normandy era vehicle, as used by the British and US Army.

Cool, thanks.

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2016, 12:32:23 am »
The diesel-engined M4A2 was actually the first welded version of the Sherman that went into production.  Other than a very brief period following the heavy losses in Tunisia (when M4A2s intended for the British were redirected to the US 1st Armoured Division), it never saw active service with the US Army.  This was due to a decision to use gasoline-powered tanks, although the M10 Tank Destroyer (which saw widespread US service) was based on the M4A2 chassis.  The M4A2 was used by the British Army (as the Sherman III), the Red Army (where it was known unofficially as the "Emcha"), the Canadians and the USMC. 

Initial production: M3 bogies, bolted transmission housing, direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This version saw service with the British 8th Army in North Africa from October 1942, eventually becoming the most numerous Sherman type in British service until the introduction of the M4A4.  British Shermans in North Africa were equipped with sand shields, brackets for the sunshield device and a blanket box on the turret.  Some of these early M4A2s may also have made it to the Soviet Union.

Early production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type - but some still had the bolted transmission housing), periscopes instead of direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  This version also saw service with the British and Canadians in North Africa, Sicily and Italy, and with the Red Army.  M4A2s supplied to the Red Army were unmodified, but the Soviets preferred the steel cleat track as it provided better traction in snow and ice.

Mid production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type then later 'sharp' type), periscopes instead of direct vision ports, wide M34A1 mantlet, appliqué armour on the hull sides and glacis (and sometimes the right turret cheek), and gun travel lock.  However, there were numerous variations, including different 'hood' designs.  This version served with the British Army in Italy and NW Europe, the Red Army and with the USMC (where they were first used on Tarawa).   

Late production: M4 bogies (late production vehicles had HVSS), cast transmission housing (later 'sharp' type), 47 degree glacis with large hatches and sand shields.  The initial batch had 'dry' stowage (and thus still had applique armour on the hull sides) and the 75mm 'high bustle' turret (with oval loader's hatch), but in May 1944 production of the M4A2 with the 76mm turret and 'wet' stowage began.  The 76mm turret design evolved the same way as with other Sherman marks.  Virtually all of these late production M4A2s were delivered to the Red Army, and the M4A2 (76mm)s tended to be allocated to Guards units.  However, some late production M4A2 (75mm)s equipped USMC units in the later battles of the Pacific war, including Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Distinguishing features: sloping rear hull with diesel exhaust, later often concealed by deflector; small grill on engine deck; late production version with large hatch hull is easily confused with large hatch M4A3 
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 09:40:35 pm by Pinky »

Rubicon Models

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2016, 01:02:40 am »
Thanks for the info... much appreciated!

Had been a busy week for us at the studio!  We have just "officially" completed NINE working projects, and had send all the files to our mould maker for sprue layout!

These were all the 250/251 expansion sets (with our digital sculpts).  Hopefully, there will be no amendments required!

Next week will be the preparation of new box arts, decals, and assembly instructions for the upcoming new releases!
;)

ultravanillasmurf

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2016, 02:30:50 am »
@Pinky, this is really interesting.

I understand the idea of wet stowage, but is there an external indication of Wet or Dry stowage on the hull?

ripley

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2016, 08:17:39 am »
No real indication from the outside that a Sherman is wet stowage .  BUT - wet stowage tanks ( mostly ) did not get the extra welded on armored panels on the hull sides .  Four types got the new ammo storage system  - M4A1 (76 mm ) W , M4A2 (76 mm ) W , M4A3 (75 mm ) W , and M4A3 ( 76 mm ) W .

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2016, 08:35:10 am »
Right - it's hard to tell, and even experts get it wrong.  Zaloga seems to have misidentified late production M4A2s as having wet stowage in one of his titles.  The M4 (105mm) and M4A3 (105mm) didn't have wet stowage either.

I also realised that the M4 didn't see service in the desert - I had thought there were some there, but 'The New Breed' says that there were none, just Sherman IIs and IIIs.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:50:14 am by Pinky »

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2016, 11:01:20 am »
On to the M4A3.  This variant was chosen by the US Army as its preferred type, principally because of the virtues of its Ford V8 gasoline engine.  Virtually all of the M4A3 production was reserved for use by the US Army (although some were also issued to the USMC).  The M4A3 didn't see any significant service until 1944, when it began to replace the M4 and M4A1 in US service in NW Europe. 

Early production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type - all M4A3s had the cast transmission housing), direct vision ports and narrow M34 mantlet.  These were only used for training.

Mid production: M4 bogies, cast transmission housing (early rounded type then later 'sharp' type), periscopes instead of direct vision ports, wide M34A1 mantlet, appliqué armour on the hull sides, glacis and (often but not always) on the right turret cheek, sand shields and gun travel lock.  Some were subsequently rebuilt with features like appliqué armour and sand shields if they weren't fitted in the factory.  There were variations in detail depending on the manufacturer, including different 'hood' designs.  This version served with the US Army (principally in the Normandy campaign), and a few also saw service in the Pacific.

Late production: M4 bogies (very late production vehicles had HVSS), cast transmission housing (later 'sharp' type), 47 degree glacis with large hatches and 'wet' stowage', and sand shields.  The initial batch had the 75mm 'high bustle' turret (with oval loader's hatch), and were designated M4A3 (75mm)W.  In March 1944 production of the M4A3 (76mm) began.  The 76mm turret design evolved the same way as with other Sherman types, so that the final version had the oval loader's hatch and muzzle brake.  The  M4A3 (75mm)W saw service with the US Army in NW Europe from about July 1944; the M4A3 (76mm)W went into service in August 1944, and the M4A3 (76mm) W HVSS went into service in December 1944.  The M4A3 (76mm)W also saw service in Italy (this seems to have been the first M4A3 variant that saw service there).  Some USMC units on Okinawa and Iwo Jima were also equipped with the M4A3 (75mm)W.  USMC tanks were heavily modified with wooden planks on the sides, sandbags, mesh and welded-on bolts in order to counter Japanese close-range anti-tank tactics.

M4A3 (105mm): M4 bogies (very late production vehicles had HVSS), 47 degree glacis with large hatches, 'high bustle' turret with 105mm mount (some turrets had a second blower on the bustle; later production vehicles had a commander's cupola instead of split hatch, and .50 cal relocated to a pintle mount), gun travel lock and sand shields.  This version saw service with the US Army in NW Europe and in the latter stages of the Pacific war (principally the Philippines and Okinawa).

M4A3E2: 250 M4A3s were built with heavier hull armour, a more heavily armoured turret (based on the T23 turret) with a thicker mantlet and a reinforced transmission housing.  Extended end connectors were standard.  The M4A3E2 was built with a 75mm gun, but about half were were refitted with a 76mm gun in 1945.  This vehicle saw service in NW Europe.

Distinguishing features: long rear hull with twin exhausts underneath; large grill on engine deck
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 11:08:26 pm by Pinky »

H0ffmn

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2016, 12:16:08 pm »
Right - it's hard to tell, and even experts get it wrong.  Zaloga seems to have misidentified late production M4A2s as having wet stowage in one of his titles.  The M4 (105mm) and M4A3 (105mm) didn't have wet stowage either.

I also realised that the M4 didn't see service in the desert - I had thought there were some there, but 'The New Breed' says that there were none, just Sherman IIs and IIIs.
      The M-4 did see service in North Africa. The paperback book, ' Under The Gun 2, First Blood. U.S.1st. Armored Division in Tunisia' ,printed by The Oliver Publishing Group, shows German Propaganda pictures taken mid to late February 1943 of destroyed M-4A1 and M-4 Sherman tanks.
      The Concord Publications book,  US. Tank Battles in North Africa and Italy 1943-45 shows a pair of knocked out M-4's. southwest of Siding Salem from February 15th 1943

Pinky

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Re: Codename: Sherman 16 - Updated 160403
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2016, 12:49:17 pm »
The M-4 did see service in North Africa. The paperback book, ' Under The Gun 2, First Blood. U.S.1st. Armored Division in Tunisia' ,printed by The Oliver Publishing Group, shows German Propaganda pictures taken mid to late February 1943 of destroyed M-4A1 and M-4 Sherman tanks.

Sorry, Hoffman - I meant that it didn't see service with the British in the desert.  See my summary of the M4 further up.  I have both the books you mention which show US M4s in Tunisia.