Author Topic: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier - M21 MMC TS1 Plastic 170118  (Read 87077 times)

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2015, 03:30:03 pm »
Here are some photos of the rear racks on the M3A1...

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2015, 03:31:56 pm »
These are for the radio... not too much from the web, but we have a Squadron book with full details.
Also included is a resin kit of the same chassis!

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2015, 08:34:49 pm »


There are two versions of the M21 81mm MMC. The one previous shown (in this post) is the upgraded version M21A1 with front facing mortar. The one here is the original M21 equipped with a rear facing mortar. Both vehicles had a reinforced floor designed to allow the mortar to be fired from within the vehicle; and is removable to fire on the ground as well.

;)

Pinky

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2015, 11:15:22 pm »
Pinky, there are two large pieces for the tarpaulin that is as large as the chassis itself, plus two smaller parts for details... 

Hey, it was just a suggestion.  I'm a WW2 AFV fan (in case that wasn't obvious), a consumer - and someone who wants to see Rubicon conquer the 1/56 scale AFV market.  That's why I bother to post here (and that includes spending quite a lot of time checking facts).  You guys are the kit designers, but you've asked for feedback, so that's what you get.  And that includes suggesting ways to make your kits more attractive than Warlord's (e.g. by including a piece like the hood, which attracted a lot of positive feedback).  And trying to help you avoid the inaccuracies that have marred some of your kits. 

With that said, I don't know who your researchers are, but (as this thread demonstrates) they're still getting stuff wrong.  I'd like to see you avoid the mistakes that can undermine your otherwise terrific models.  Please take the comments below in that constructive spirit! 

Stowage boxes - nice photos, although the third one is an M2, not an M3.  The stowage racks (not stowage boxes) were added to all versions of the half-track.  There were different types of stowage boxes on some of the special purpose half-tracks, such as the M4 (see below).  The stowage boxes in your kit appear to be redundant.   

Radio - your top photo appears to show a radio installed in an M2, not an M3.  The bottom photo is a resin kit - I dunno what it's based on.  I'm no expert on WW2 Allied radio equipment - it's a rather complex subject - but I think the radio in your photo is an SCR-528 (the same radio installed in US tanks but not normally in the personnel-carrier half-tracks).  Or it might be an SCR-608, which was used by the artillery.  I'm not sure which version the radio in your kit depicts, but I still question its inclusion. 

Mortar carriages - as I originally pointed out, the mortar carrier version of the M3 was the M21, not the M4 (as your prototype was labeled).  Only 110 M21s were built; they all had forward-facing 81mm mortars, and about half of them were used by the Free French.  Most of the mortar carriers used by the US Army were M4s (572 built) or M4A1s (600 built).  All of these had rear-facing mortars, although some units (including 4th Armoured) re-positioned them to face forwards.  The only real differences were that the M4A1 had a reinforced floor and mounts for firing from within the vehicle.  There was no M21A1.

Your latest drawing shows a vehicle that didn't exist i.e. an M4 (although the ammo storage is different) built on an M3 hull.  Here's a top view of the M21.  Aside from the position of the mortar, the layout is quite different from your drawing.

 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 07:05:00 pm by Pinky »

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2015, 12:15:33 am »
Pinky:  Thanks for the pointers.  We would try our best to make our products as historically accurate as possible.  With several WW2 vehicle projects (with up to 6) going on at the same time, it is quite easy to overlook features that are similar yet very different, and hence the errors.

Depending on the complexity of the researched vehicle, we only allow up to a maximum of 4 weeks to complete each research.  It is another 9 weeks from 3D drawing to the completion of the mould making process.  We do have a very tight schedule!

This is why we used this forum to show some of our work-in-progress drawings and prototypes.  Things that we show here are not always correct or might not even be produced.  This forum is a platform for us to interconnect with customers and to exchange ideas. 

By raising issues and posting things that we have “doubts” is one way to raise awareness among customers like you to tell us things that we don’t know or missed.  We only have a few researchers whose mother tongue is not even English; they basically have to go through dozens of available publications to cross-reference each studied subject (sometimes in English, Chinese, and Russian).  All of them do not have a World War Two background before working for us… it is sort of a “learn-as-you-work” process, gaining knowledge as they work!

Of course, we do have an overworked project manager who is in charge, helping us to keep track of all on-going projects; from start to finish… he had more key issues to resolve on a daily basis!

Your feedback is something that we valued very much, so thanks!

Will try to raise this up during our production meeting…


Pinky

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2015, 06:59:29 pm »
Well I hope it helps.  If it's any consolation, I've now bought 4 each of the Rubicon T-34/76 and the T-34/85.  Such nice kits - especially the T-34/76 with the 1943 model turret.

One book your researchers should consider acquiring is 'British and American Tanks of World War Two'.  It's quite an old book, but it's still very authoritative and contains a huge amount of useful information about Allied armour (including half-tracks), and helps put a lot of the otherwise confusing variants into perspective.  Anything by Steve Zaloga on US armour is also very reliable.   

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2015, 10:37:34 pm »
This is just as fresh as it can gets, direct from the factory!  First test run for our M3 Half Track chassis using multi-slide mould...



;)

elias.tibbs

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2015, 05:19:51 am »
Any idea what the dimensions of it are?
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
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Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2015, 11:46:53 pm »
Been quiet on the M3/M3A1 Half Track for a while.  Factory & studio had been busy with other OEM projects.  Finally had the moulds done!
The following is our first test shots for the M3/M3A1 Half Track...





Still have minor shrinkage issues and loose ends to fix, but overall quality looks fine!

;)

elias.tibbs

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2015, 05:17:12 am »
I see crew... ;D
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
A (Cam)Bridge Too Far - A UK based Bolt Action Tournament

Laffe

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2015, 06:03:03 am »
I see four .30-cal and one .50... Do you need so many guns? Don't get me wrong, extra guns are welcome, but other stowage is also welcome.

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2015, 12:00:48 pm »
I see four .30-cal and one .50... Do you need so many guns? Don't get me wrong, extra guns are welcome, but other stowage is also welcome.
The multiple MGs are for gaming use.  The M3A1 half track can mount 1 x 0.5 and 3 x 0.3 cal MG, whereas the M3 can have a forward mount 0.3 cal MG.

We are also working on an Allies or US stowage kit, here are some of the contents:



Don't ask!  No release dates yet!
;)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 05:05:03 pm by Rubicon Models »

elias.tibbs

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2015, 03:51:50 pm »
Gets the neck beard ready..

Officially in an armoured infantry platoon, only the platoon commanders m3 would be armed with a .50 cal, the rest would be armed with .30cals. However in reality, by late war most were armed with .50cals as they were acquired by the units and it was just easier for supply.

Neck beard over.

It's a nice option to have in there.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
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ripley

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2015, 12:15:16 am »
Love the half track body . So many variations I could build from that . Also really like the crew figures . Very basic in detail but I see that as a plus , with a change of head / helmet and uniform color you could have a Russian , Brit or German driving the half track . Nice to see your moving forward on the US stowage . BUT , if the items , top center are supposed to be kit bags , then the back packs are way over sized . To me the packs look to be at least 2 or 3 times bigger than they should be in 1/56 scale , I would venture they would be closer to 1/35 scale . And I believe  they're called ruck sacks not ransacks , that brings a whole other image to mind  :)

Rubicon Models

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Re: M3/M3A1 Half-Track Personnel Carrier
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2015, 12:41:44 am »
Sorry about the spelling, will correct them as needed.  As for the crew figures... this is our first trail effort with digital sculpting. 

Our initial thinking was...
- If we were to do the figures in "true" 1/56 scale, the figures will be too small for gamers.
- We have basically scaled them up by more than 15% to reach this size!  Still is a little bit smaller.
- Decided to do uniform as generic as possible.
- With heads separated so that you can swap using your own bits.
- Even if sculpt failed terribly, the driver will be block by view inside the cabin.

As for the rucksacks, they are in fact in 1/35 scale for detailing purposes, the rest are in 1/56.  The US Stowage kit is pretty much still a very early WIP project, something that we will continue to do when we have the spare time to.