Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => Wish Lists => Topic started by: Tracks on April 24, 2019, 03:10:39 pm
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For me, just a bit of venting here because sometimes gamers (and at times model companies) can’t see the bigger picture - even when it’s obvious, and this astonishes me at times. Not to point fingers, but there is this unhappy gamer, and he is angry because no one has released a plastic kit of the T-35 in 1:56 scale. Would a 1:56 scale plastic kit of the T-35 be neat? Yes, certainly, but there are so many other more important and useful plastic kits that gamers would like to see long before hoping for a T-35 Soviet Heavy Tank!
These days we should count ourselves fortunate when it comes to 28mm (1:56) scale plastic gaming miniatures/models. Not so long ago – just a few short years really – the only vehicles available for gaming at this scale were either metal or resin with metal bits. More importantly, most of these were a joke (visually ugly and disproportioned), but we didn’t have much of a choice at that time. Yes, some of the newer resin stuff is looking better, but compared to a good plastic model kit (and sometimes even a mediocre one as well) they are still inferior in several ways.
That being said, there are still a few common items that gamers would really like to see released in plastic. What I mean by “common items” are things that would see a lot of use on the typical gaming table for games like Bolt Action, Chain of Command, Battleground WW2, Operation Squad, and several other skirmish level games, and players use 28mm (1:56) scale miniatures/models. Before I want to see a T-35 or even an M26 Pershing, I would very much like to see – and I hope I’m not alone here - the following 1:56 (28mm) scale plastic kits:
= List updated April, 2019 =
= List updated October, 2020 =
= List updated November, 2021 =
= List updated January, 2022 =
= List updated October, 2022 = probably last time
American vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Plastic AT-Guns - these would be popular. – a 37mm is available and a 75mm is coming soon!
M3 Medium (Lee) – best if it can be a Lee & Grant kit - coming soon?!
British vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Plastic AT-Guns - these would be popular – a 25pdr/17pdr kit is available
M3 Medium (Grant) – best if it can be a Lee & Grant kit - coming soon?!
British Armored Car – one of the most common types.
Note: a Humber Mk II/IV is already available.**
British Truck – RM is releasing a Bedford Truck – available
Valentine Tank – for those that need them. – available Valentine - II/III/IV/V/IIICS/IX/X/XI
** Sadly, this is not a Rubicon Models kit, but still a very good plastic model kit from Warlord Games.
French vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Plastic AT-Guns
Renault R35/39/40 or Hotchkiss H35/38/39 – more Renaults were built.
AMD Panhard armored car.
French Truck - one of the most common types.
German vehicles and equipment in plastic:
SdKfz 10 half-track – available and a SdKfx 10/4.
Note: before the SdKfz 10, Rubicon Models also released a Krupp Protze. Product Code: 280082
SdKfz 231 8-Rad armored car.
Note: There is a very nice SdKfz 222 kit kit from Rubicon Models. Product Code: 280062
Panzer II Ausf A/B/C/F – available
Panzer III (early to late) – available
StuG III Ausf A-E – not as numerous as mid to late war versions, but useful for those early war scenarios.
Note: Rubicon Models has already released a very nice kit of the StuG III Ausf G. Product Code: 280017
Soviet vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Plastic AT-Guns - these would be popular.
BA-64 – one of the most produced Soviet armored cars.
Note: There are very nice kits of the BA-3/BA-6 and Ba-10 from Rubicon Models.
BT-5/7 - coming soon!
T-60/70
SU-76
Italian vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Several things since there isn’t much available.
Carro Armato M13/40 & Semovente Commando M40 – available
Semovente da 75/18 SPG – available
Very nice plastic model kits.
Japanese vehicles and equipment in plastic:
Several things since there isn’t much available.
Now, there are going to be those (because there always is) that will say, “I really want to see the M7 Priest in plastic.” Or maybe a T-35 Heavy Tank, a Brummbar, a Ferdinand, an ISU-152, an M26 Pershing (available), a 152mm ML20 how, a Borgward, a 155mm Long Tom, an M12 GMC, a Char C2, a Sturmtiger, a Sexton, a Staghound, a GPA 'Seep', a DUKW, and so on, but to be blunt and hopefully obvious about it all, I think the items listed above would be far more useful to the average or typical gamer that collects and uses 28mm (1:56) scale miniatures to play such games like Bolt Action, Chain of Command, Battleground WW2, or Operation Squad. Something like a 155mm heavy howitzer for example would be unlikely to see much use (if ever) in your typical skirmish level game. So instead of a 155mm heavy howitzer or a Brummbar, wouldn’t it be so much useful and better to have that M3 Medium Lee/Grant (coming soon?) or that SdKfz 10 half-track (available) that we all have been waiting for?
After the model companies have already released all the more common and useful kits, than maybe exploring the need for something like a T-35 or M7 Priest can be explored.
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Sympathetic to your point of view Tracks. As my wargaming interests are varied I can't envisage building many WWII armies. I currently desire vehicles that are compatible with the Polish campaign and the German/Russian armies of the period. Bit of a niche perhaps but there are too many things to do and no time to do them all. It must be very difficult to please everyone as we all have different projects in mind.
I agree entirely long range weapons such as the 155mm howitzer shouldn't have any place in a skirmish game unless it's an objective marker or perhaps part of an ambushed convoy in some scenario. Any rules that think these weapons make sense in a skirmish game has missed the mark in my view. On that basis I wouldn't prioritise them if I had any say in it. I wouldn't be interested in fantasy or one of vehicles either.
No doubt Rubicon will make heaps of money producing big guns and 'orrible imaginary things because they understand their customers better than I do!
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I understand where you are coming from (who would want an M7 Priest, a Sexton would be so much better ^___^).
I also sympathise with Tyroflyer, I would like cruisers and lorries suitable for BEF and early North Africa.
British guns should include the 25 pounder, it is iconic and used as AT.
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I agree with you as well, Tracks . As much as I want that cool limited production vehicle/ tank ( Maus , Tortoise ) ,the reality is with only 3 companies making plastic 1/56 kits while trying to balance game piece / model kit , we are going to get your bog standard , produced in their hundreds or thousands , truck , AC or tank , which in some cases , has its own cool facture (numerous T-26 types for example) . Maybe, if like in 1/35 scale we had 30 odd companies making kits we would get the weird and wonderfully obscure .
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Tracks, back when Rubicon started writing about the upcoming M4A1 Sherman tank kit , they did mention the early suspension for the M4A1 would be used as a platform for other vehicles kits using the same suspension. They did mention a M7 Priest and a M3 Lee as future projects.
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I think, and Tracks can correct me if I am wrong, that his (Tracks) point is there are some key vehicles (and guns) that are not currently being produced in plastic by any manufacturer. He thinks that Rubicon (encouraged by forum members, and I include myself) is getting distracted from producing these items and producing flights of wish fulfilment and not bread and butter items that will sell well to wargamers who want a platoon of common tanks, lorries to carry a platoon of infantry and an AT gun or two.
I understand this position (and am guilty of flights of fancy over my wish lists).
The following are my own thoughts and not based on actual information from Rubicon.
I suspect that some of the (slightly esoteric) projects we do see are "apprentice" pieces (in the old meaning), where a project is given to a new team to prove their capability. This covers some of the "odder" items and includess fencing etc.
The confusion over the QL series lorry might be that the initial design process by a team assumed that the troop variant and the cargo variant were only cosmetically different (this might be due to available information - for many years the vehicles aboard the SS Thistlegorm were authoritively described as being certain models. Lots of books have been published on the subject. A recent in-depth analysis has shown that the models are not as previously described).
If the cargo version was more advanced, we might get to see the work in progress. Rubicon has invested time in it, so it might not sell as well as the troop carrier, but does provide a return while the troop carrier is completed.
The other thing is the competition. The Loyd carrier is the most recent example. I was hoping to pick up three at Salute, but it was not quite available. It was noticeable that someone else has released a Loyd carrier this month.
Rubicon released renders of their future Italan tanks, and someone else "rushed" their plastic versions.
As the "fully fledged" projects that have been shown to us without preamble, Rubicon do not always show what they are working on. We have no idea if they curremtly have any of the listed models under development. We also do not know if any projects assigned to a team have not met their requirements.
As the M4A1 project has shown, this is complicated develppment.
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Venting is good for your health, please do it outdoor though ;)!
Back to the subject, you must all realise we have 70 kits just under the "WW2 Plastic Kits" category (not counting pewter or resin items) in 55 months since our first release back in late Oct 2014. That's an average of 1.27 kits per month for the last 4.5 year! We are not aware there are many companies in this hobby who are willing to keep this up at this pace.
There is a large amount of work needed to kickstart and then work on each project:
1. Research on the subject, reference material on variants, blueprints & measurement, and related model kits in various scales (if any).
2. Then came the painstaking process of drawing the 3D model from scratch.
3. Compare with historical photos and blueprints from various sources with our 3D model, making changes if necessary.
4. Look at different variants and "think" of a way to combine all of them into a single design.
5. Print 3D prototype to help visualise assembly and the final product.
6. Make changes again to ease assembly and simplify parts or overall design.
7. Try to fit all the parts onto the proposed number of sprues for the project until all parts can fit.
8. Otherwise, back to the drawing board to make more concessions.
9. Once approved, the factory will start doing parts layout based on our requirement.
10. If approved, mould making will commence.
11. Wait for the first test-shot (TS1).
12. Once done, get sample sprues, compare with drawings and test assemble the parts.
13. Make changes if need until everything is perfect.
14. Sign off the moulds and proceed to the first commercial run.
15. In the meantime, the studio will start doing assembly instruction diagrams and decal sheet.
16. Cover art, graphics and text material are needed to complete the box design.
17. Once all after-production material is ready and approved, they will be sent to the factory for printing.
18. Samples of these materials will be sent back to the studio for approval before final printing.
19. Set a date for the production run where everything will be sent to the packaging line to produce the final product.
20. Arrange the finished product to be shipped to our warehouse, and then arrange freight to ship everything to our overseas partners.
From R&D to the final product usually will take 10 to 11 months IF there are no hiccups; that is, unexpected events like another urgent project, holidays, or problems with mould-making.
About TOPICS
This is a hard one. What subject to choose for a project? We have a list of subjects on our production list and each one is sorted by priority based on many factors, BUT “game system” is not one of them. Completion schedule is different for each project. We select new projects when there are projects closed to completion. We look at each new project based on completion time, complexity, and budget.
Some projects are so difficult to do, we have to put them towards the end of the list or until we have the experience to tackle them… some early war vehicles are good examples. It is not just about the rivets, but the size of the vehicle as well. The smaller the vehicle the more difficult it is to make it into a sturdy gaming piece, but yet be able to show all the details in a proportionate manner.
Let’s take a look at our M4 Sherman Digital Library project – this is our first large scale project that had spanned over two years to get FIVE M4 Sherman variants out to the market, but we got stuck with the M4A1, the last of the variants that we planned. We can release it with ease by using old components from our previous M4 variants with new parts that are only available for the M4A1. But we scratched the whole design by redoing the M4A1 from the ground up… yet it had to maintain compatibility with our other M4 kits.
Besides the M4 turrets, the new M4A1 has a new upper and lower chassis, a new roadwheel & track system, and new transmission housing. All these parts are designed to be M3 Lee/Grant and M7 Priest compatible IF these latter projects are to commence in the near future.
These issues and the experience gained enable us to create a much well organized Panzer IV project, which only took us less than 2 years to complete. The experience we gained from both projects enables us to complete our Panzer III project in record-breaking time… the first TS1 sprues are expected towards the end of April. The T-26 project is also a breakthrough in design and production by using different technologies through trial and error.
About WHAT YOU WANT
We cannot promise what we will do next until we post them on FB or here at the forum. At times, we had to stop projects at the R&D phase because of design issues, or we know they are well over budget, or simply someone is already doing it. But I think you all agree we do listen to all requests – like the M3A1 scout car and the Chevy 30cwt truck.
We simply do not want to disappoint you if we promise you to do one particular vehicle and not doing it. There are some new projects that we really wanted to start this year:
1. Some Allies AT guns (not too many, but at least a start)
2. One Allies armour car (probably, will depend on schedule)
3. M3 Lee/Grant
4. One or two Panzer IV variants
Projects that we will NOT do this year:
1. French vehicles
2. Japanese vehicles
About FUTURE PLANS
We will definitely NOT limit ourselves to just WW2… period!
;)
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I liked that.
I see that projects on vehicles that appear in post WWII conflicts to be beneficial for the future. And of course work on vehicles used by multiple armies.
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Will be interested to see what the Panzer IV variants you (Rubicon) have in mind. Disappointed to read early war vehicles are difficult to do.
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Disappointed to read early war vehicles are difficult to do.
It is not possible, just take more time to explore and work with. We will still tackle them one at a time!
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There is a large amount of work needed to kickstart and then work on each project:
1. Research on the subject, reference material on variants, blueprints & measurement, and related model kits in various scales (if any).
2. Then came the painstaking process of drawing the 3D model from scratch.
3. Compare with historical photos and blueprints from various sources with our 3D model, making changes if necessary.
...
...
18. Samples of these materials will be sent back to the studio for approval before final printing.
19. Set a date for the production run where everything will be sent to the packaging line to produce the final product.
20. Arrange the finished product to be shipped to our warehouse, and then arrange freight to ship everything to our overseas partners.
From R&D to the final product usually will take 10 to 11 months IF there are no hiccups; that is, unexpected events like another urgent project, holidays, or problems with mould-making.
With only two or three compaines making 1:56 scale plastic kits, after reading this someone might wonder why don't these two to three companies want to work together instead of against each other? Because it seems like a waste of resources when we get almost the same plastic kit from two or three different companies.
A are a few examples:
8.8cm Flak Gun (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (1)
Jadgpanzer 38(t) (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (2)
Panther Tank (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
M8/M20 Armored Car - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
Tiger I (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (3)
Stug III (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (4)
M10 TD (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (5)
M3 Halfrack (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
SdKfz 251 Halfrack (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
Opel Blitz/Maultier (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (6)
* There is another company that makes plastic kits for Warlord Games, but I'm not 100% sure who it is. Plastic Soldier Company?
(1) The RM kit gives you wheels.
(2) The Italeri kit gives you the option to make a Flakpanzer 38(t), but somewhat a waste since only two were made. However the 3.7cm Flak gun and be modified to make a stand alone piece. Overall though, I think the RM kit is the better choice of the two kits.
(3) For interest, I have used the tracks from the Italeri kit on the RM kit. They fit just fine.
(4) I do not own the RM kit (yet), but I assembled one for a friend, and its a nice kit.
(5) The RM kit gives you the option to make the M36, or use the turret to make the M36B1 with the M4A3 kit.
(6) Here the Warlord kit as an advantage because it can be built as either model whereas the RM are two separate kits.
These are only a few examples, and there are a few more. More importantly, we will see more. One example is going to be the King Tiger. Another example is going to be the Panzer III, but the good news is that RM plans to release versions not currently available in plastic.
So, what is the point of all this? Well, my point is simply this. If these companies positively communicated with each other and constructively worked together, it is very possible that we would have a few more different plastic kits that we do not currently have at this time. This would have been especially good if some of these kits could have been the more common items like a SdKfz 10, a Japanese Truck, or a BT-5/7. And yes, I am very aware that this is so much easier to say than to do. Competition and rivalry can be a good and a bad thing.
There is no "I" in TEAM. :)
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So, what is the point of all this? Well, my point is simply this. If these companies positively communicated with each other and constructively worked together, it is very possible that we would have a few more different plastic kits that we do not currently have at this time.
There is no "I" in TEAM. :)
But this is not how business works :o
The essence of business, indeed the whole capitalist system, is competition. You might as well ask why do MacDonalds and Burger King both make hamburgers? Because each thinks their hamburgers are better, and they can sell more of them than their rivals. Business is not a team game. To suggest that companies in the same market should carve up the opportunities between them ('Okay, we'll only make widget A and you only make widget B, and the we'll both have a monopoly over our respective ranges of widgets') is 'anti-competitive' and denying consumers a choice. What you're suggesting is actually illegal in most countries :-[
I totally get where you're coming from, of course. It's a question I have asked myself many times down the years... 'Do we REALLY need yet another range of Vikings, or Romans, or Napoleonic French, or WW2 Germans, when there are already dozens of ranges out there from wargames manufacturers? What on earth are they thinking, introducing yet another lookalike range into an already saturated market?'
The answer of course, is that they think THEIR range of Vikings or Waffen SS or 95th Rifles, is going to be better than everyone else's existing range, and they will be able to make money from producing it. That's it. Simple.
It's irritating, but it's the essence of the capitalist system most of us live in, it isn't going to change (well, unless there's a revolution ;)) and it feels a tad naïve to expect otherwise.
Businesses, even 'hobby businesses' driven by passion as well as profit, will always make things they think they can make well and that will sell. And if someone else is already making the same thing - tough. That's business. We'll try to make ours better and sell more of them.
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There's a need to recognise that these are companies trying to make money and are inherently in competition with each other. But that shouldn't distract from the central point about the bigger picture of what should get made in plastic. For a company to make a kit, it has to be expected to sell enough to return a profit obviously, but sometimes that doesn't mean what people shout the loudest for. Sure a plastic T-35 would be cool, but really how many people would actually buy one?
Whereas the SdKfz 10 (I know, I know)... there might not appear to be the demand for it but its a kit which almost every German player will want to have (multiples of, if you ask me!) - even if they might not currently know that yet, they will once they have the option. It should be a staple kit and I find it mind-boggling that none of the main producers make one (not even in resin). Sometimes making it will make the demand appear - it's the tow of choice for almost all the AT and flak guns Rubicon now make, let along the AA variants, etc.
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Look at a larger market , 1/35 scale . IRC , last year was the year of the Panther , with about 12 versions ( tank , Berge , Jpanther ) half with full interiors from a slew of companies , the year before it was Tigers . And almost every new company that pops up seems to put out a Tiger as their 1st kit . This year might just end up the year of the Sherman as a bunch of new kits are coming out , some versions which have never been released in 1/35 before . And then you get the weird stuff like Bronco releasing a Ram II . Funny thing is , some of the kits we have , the Rubicon M8 GMC , for example , are pretty much state of the art , while the 1/35 crowd contends with the late 70s Tamiya kit ( its got problems , in fact almost all Stuart based 1/35 kits by all companies suck ) and the AVF Company proposed version , from the early 2000s in postponed again . Yes , we do want more , but lets also be thankful for what we've got . I wouldn't have time ( or space ) to build and store all the kits I want
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Look at a larger market , 1/35 scale .
The scale of a plastic model is an important aspect to consider. The 1/35 scale is primary a model scale for hobbyists. There might be wargamers out there that use this scale for gaming, but I do not know of any. The primary scales for plastic model kits I see most miniature gamers use for WW2 gaming are 1/100, 1/72, and 1/56. The latter is of course a unique and relatively new scale to the miniature gaming world.
Model companies also need to think about and factor into account who might their main customers be.
Modellers (Not Miniatures Gamers):
Most of these people going out and buying plastic military vehicle kits are model hobbyist that build these kits for the enjoyment, for model shows, for model contests, and for model clubs/groups. They don't mind (and sometimes welcome) the unique kits that are released, and not just your common every day stuff like Shermans or Panzer IVs.
Miniature Gamers (Not Modellers):
Most of these people going out and buying plastic military vehicle kits are gamers that build these kits for enjoyment, but more importantly, for their gaming needs. They prefer the more common types of tanks they can use, but also want trucks, half-tracks, AT-Guns, and other useful items and/or vehicles. That being said, there will be some that also want something less common like a T35 heavy tank, but they will prefer the more common and useful kits first.
Yes, there are people who are hobbyist modellers as well as miniautre gamers, but I put them into the Miniature Gamers category.
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With only two or three compaines making 1:56 scale plastic kits, after reading this someone might wonder why don't these two to three companies want to work together instead of against each other? Because it seems like a waste of resources when we get almost the same plastic kit from two or three different companies.
My sense is that Warlord have deliberately undercut Rubicon in several cases. I can't prove it, but their releases have tended to track Rubicon's (Rubicon appear to have a longer lead time from announcement to release). I bet Warlord see Rubicon as pretenders in a market they'd pretty much created (plastic 1/56 scale vehicles).
A are a few examples:
8.8cm Flak Gun (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (1)
Jadgpanzer 38(t) (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (2)
Panther Tank (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
M8/M20 Armored Car - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
Tiger I (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (3)
Stug III (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (4)
M10 TD (RM & Italeri) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (5)
M3 Halfrack (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
SdKfz 251 Halfrack (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table.
Opel Blitz/Maultier (RM & Warlord*) - both more than good enough for the gaming table. (6)
* There is another company that makes plastic kits for Warlord Games, but I'm not 100% sure who it is. Plastic Soldier Company?
I would caveat some of those comments. You're correct about them all being servicable wargaming models, but there are still significant differences in quality and detail.
Warlord/Italeri's 88 doesn't include plastic crew, and they didn't do the tractor in plastic.
I think Warlord's Panther is noticeably better, provided you like Zimmerit. However, the tracks are a bit annoying.
Rubicon's M8/M20 is, I think, more crisply detailed and with complete wheels.
Warlord/Italeri's late Tiger I is better than Rubicon's, but Rubicon's kit makes a nice early Tiger (with a bit of work).
Rubicon's StuG III is, unfortunately, rather inaccurate. Warlord/Italeri's is greatly superior - apart from the tracks and the limited options.
I thought the detail on Warlord/Italeri's M10 was rather soft, and the crew were pretty horrible. While Rubcon's M10/M36 has a few issues, I think it's much better (and you get the M36, which is rather good from a wargaming perspective).
I think Rubicon's SdKfz 251 and M3 halftracks are vastly superior to Warlord's.
I don't have the Warlord Opel kit - it looks like better value in terms of options, which is unusual.
There are also the Sherman kits, which partly overlap (Rubicon hasn't yet done an M4A4 and Warlord only has that and the M4). Here, I think the Rubicon kits are also vastly superior, not just in terms of detail and ease of assembly, but also the range of options. This is where competition has helped us, because Rubicon have looked at what Warlord did and improved upon it.
PSC appears to be supplying designs for some kits - you can tell from the scaled-up figures (identical to PSC's), component layout and oversize details.
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For me, yes, it has to be a vehicle that will sell well, but it would be nice if it wasn't so ubiquitous that everyone already had one.
So -
German
Pz II
Early Pz III
later war 8 wheeled German armoured car variants, (Stummel, Pak40 etc.)
US
Chaffee
Pershing
UK
Comet
Vickers VIb & c
Matilda II
Soviet
T70
BT7
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Pinky I agree with you, but it would be good to make a few notes for those that might not know yet.
Warlord/Italeri's 88 doesn't include plastic crew, and they didn't do the tractor in plastic.
The Warlord kit (plastic from Italeri) has metal crew, but the separately released kit by Italeri includes plastic crew.
Rubicon's M8/M20 is, I think, more crisply detailed and with complete wheels.
I have both the Rubicon Mpdels kit and the Italeri kit. To be honest, it would be very difficult to recommend one over the other.
Warlord/Italeri's late Tiger I is better than Rubicon's, but Rubicon's kit makes a nice early Tiger (with a bit of work).
Out of interest, I have used the plastic tracks from the Italeri Tiger I kit on the Rubicon Models Tiger I kit. It works! But some modelling skill is needed. I only converted one, but I like the look of the Italeri tracks on the Rubicon Models kit. However, if you want the early rubber wheeled, well, then you have to wait for the resin set from Rubicon Models.
I don't have the Warlord Opel kit - it looks like better value in terms of options, which is unusual.
I can assure any gamer that both the Warlord kit and the Rubicon Models kits are well worth getting, though I think the RM kits are a bit better. That being said, the Warlord kit has an edge because it can be built as either a truck or a mule, whereas you have to get two separate kits from Rubicon Models to do this.
There are also the Sherman kits, which partly overlap (Rubicon hasn't yet done an M4A4 and Warlord only has that and the M4).
Hands down, I highly recommend Rubicon Models M4 kits!
That being said, my first plastic M4 was the Warlord "M4 Sherman medium tank" (WGB-AI-502) kit, and it was so superior to their resin POS kit that it started my trend of replacing all my resin/metal vehicles with plastic kits. Even though the track tension doesn't look properly maintained on the Italeri kit, I have to say that the Italeri M4 plastic kit is a very good plastic kit that builds up easily to make a great gaming model! I'm not sorry I bought Warlord plastic M4, but I recommend getting the Italeri packaged kit instead of the Warlord packaged kit. Same holds true with all the Italeri kits really.
(https://www.italeri.com/uploads/products/15751_3D.jpg)
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For me, yes, it has to be a vehicle that will sell well, but it would be nice if it wasn't so ubiquitous that everyone already had one.
So -
German
Pz II
Early Pz III
later war 8 wheeled German armoured car variants, (Stummel, Pak40 etc.)
US
Chaffee
Pershing
UK
Comet
Vickers VIb & c
Matilda II
Soviet
T70
BT7
The Matilda is available in plastic, as is the SDKFZ 234/2.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nFC_CuTxnNE/WTzmb3F9lkI/AAAAAAAACXk/Ya1gIpGSZTgxTnqR5mTbGpew1ALjLFU3QCLcB/s1600/puma1-8.png)
Now a 234 with proper wheels and a range of weapons would be good.
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/2017/06/sdkfz-2342-puma-revisited.html (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/2017/06/sdkfz-2342-puma-revisited.html)
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Except for the hollow wheels the Italeri Puma is a pretty good kit IMO . Could have had a separate driver's hatch , but that's just me wanting to add crew figures surrendering to US troops ( saw a real neat video ) . And really unless you want to depict it with turned wheels ( not fun to get all 8 looking just right ) you don't notice the lack of wheel backs . All though why they went to all the trouble with all the steering / suspension parts and went cheap on the wheels I don't know . And why they didn't expand the base kit to make the other versions is strange to me . That being said , the 234/1 & 234/3 are easy conversions using parts from Rubicon's 250/251 add on kits . Not too sure about the 234/4 , probably doable with Rubicon's 75mm gun , I just not brave enough to try that kit bash yet . And yes I think if someone was to produce a line of 8 wheeled German armored cars ( 231 /232 , and all the 234s ) would be great
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@Ripley - I agree that the 234/2 is only let down by the wheels, and no spares of the steering for those who lose them^__^.
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I know there's a plastic Matilda, but I understand it only has limited options. So I can't build a BEF version or an Aussie one from this kit. (I believe).
I also know there's a Puma, (somehow I ended up with two of them), but the range of Sdkfz 234+ variants would be nice as add on kits, or even the earlier 231 series, which saw extensive service before being withdrawn in favour of the Sdkfz 250 as a recce vehicle.
Finally, the one I forgot to add was the Panzer I & variants.
And of course any of the French tanks, carriers etc, saw service in German hands. But that might be going too far.
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There is an instruction sheet picture of the Bolt Action / Italeri Matilda on page 15 , What's Warlords Up to in general Discussions , seems to show both style ( dessert / Russia ) and BEF ( more exposed ) wheels set/side skirts . Plus options for single or twin exhaust ( skid tail ? ) , so you might be in luck . I've kit bashed the Puma into a 234/3 using the Rubicon Stummel add on kit and another member of the forum ( sorry name escapes me ) has added the late 20mm turret , again from a Rubicon add on kit to make the 234/1 . A 234/4 could probably be kit bashed from the pak 75 kit , its just a matter of taking the plunge and cutting plastic . I find it a lot more fun to build my own vehicle versions than waiting for a kit to drop , don't you ?
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There is an instruction sheet picture of the Bolt Action / Italeri Matilda on page 15 , What's Warlords Up to in general Discussions , seems to show both style ( dessert / Russia ) and BEF ( more exposed ) wheels set/side skirts . Plus options for single or twin exhaust ( skid tail ? ) , so you might be in luck .
Here it is.
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/53098640_10118755749105334_5626207175492763648_n_zpszfbgjxiv.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/52930339_10118755749090364_8440598304240173056_n_zpsqm8cbqab.jpg)
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Thank you for that. Very promising, though it doesn't appear to include the trench-crossing skid.
And yes, I don't mind kit bashing, and I may even attack one of my pre-built Pumas with the Stummel add on, though as they are both built, it could be a bit tricky.
I still want a plastic 231 8 rad though. And Panzer Is, although the Panzer II hunger has been assuaged a little with a Warlord resin one from Carronade yesterday.
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I think part 38 on the instruction sheet is the trench skid , just like picture , exhaust pipe on left side . It doesn't look like the ones on the French tanks , it's more of a box shape . What ever works I guess
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HT8YnY1/a12-matilda-mkii-bef-conversion-set-333-p.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HT8YnY1)
BEF Matilda , ( note co ax Vickers ) trench skid ( box )
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I think part 38 on the instruction sheet is the trench skid , just like picture , exhaust pipe on left side . It doesn't look like the ones on the French tanks , it's more of a box shape . What ever works I guess
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HT8YnY1/a12-matilda-mkii-bef-conversion-set-333-p.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HT8YnY1)
BEF Matilda , ( note co ax Vickers ) trench skid ( box )
That is the bustle ^__^.
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And Panzer Is
I can recommend the Empress Panzer I (I have the Breda armed one).
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GlI4PoqIYmw/Wb69Kq-wZTI/AAAAAAAACnY/-N0y-1kTAUADO02Mod7a4q1sxjQdyuwuQCLcBGAs/s1600/pzr1b-1.png)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YUbU6yU1o70/WlpTza8zsCI/AAAAAAAAC4Q/-p5UpolbfCUssADSz9dXHk6hTxFyTAfmwCLcBGAs/s1600/pz1b-31.png)
More here: http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/search/label/Panzer%20I%20ausf%20B (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/search/label/Panzer%20I%20ausf%20B)
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Would a plastic model kit of a Panzer I be good? Well yes, but before seeing a Panzer I kit, I truly hope that we see see plastic kits of the following German vehicles added first:
SdKfz 10 half-track
Panzer II Ausf A-F
SdKfz 231 8-Rad armored car
StuG III Ausf A-E
These would be some of the more wanted and used common items that the average miniature gamer will want and need for their games.
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I hope the new book from Osprey Publishing inspires a future release of a new plastic kit.
(https://ospreypublishing.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/958def80b7ce809d46640f86aa46835c/9/7/9781472832146.jpg)
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I was just talking to my friend (with Skype) about the news of Rubicon Models' announcement of the new American 37mm AT-Gun. For those collecting American forces, we are getting close to having a good selection of basic "Bread and Butter" items in plastic.
Bread and Butter American vehicles and equipment kits that are still needed in plastic:
Plastic AT-Guns - these would be popular. The future 37mm, is a good start.
M3 Medium (Lee) – Better if a Lee & Grant combo kit!
I would still like to see a 75mm GMC M3 conversion kit, but I have to agree with my friend in that while a good addition for gamers/modellers, we do not consider this a "Bread and Butter" item.
As for German vehicles and equipment, we have a bit of a disagreement as to what makes a good "Bread and Butter" item. However, we both fully agree with the following items:
Bread and Butter German vehicles and equipment kits that are still needed in plastic:
SdKfz 10 half-track - the SdKfz 10/4 would be a good conversion kit for the base kit.
Panzer II Ausf A/B/C
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Updated the list at the start of this post.
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=848.msg11889#msg11889
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Always nice to see items on the " wish list " making it into production .
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100% agree.
Many gamers want 1/56 (28mm) models for skirmish games like Bolt Action and Chain of Command, where it is important to have matched armies.
So for example, I have decided on early war Russian campaign and would like a small number of German and Russian vehicles for the opposing armies. So let’s have a look
Well there is the marvellous T-26, great start. Now for a German tank of similar capability that can go up against it. Let’s see what we have - err, absolutely nothing.
Maybe I should look at armoured cars. Well Rubicon have an excellent Sdkfz 222, now for some Russian opposition - let’s see what we have - err, absolutely nothing.
So what I’d really appreciate a range of models that allow me to equip opposing armies in a given theatre.
Cheers,
Nigel
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If you are looking for Early War Russian Front kit, to equip both sides, then so far from Rubicon you have:
Russian:
Multiple versions of the T-26 light tank. Of the 21K tanks Russia had in June 1941, over half were T-26
T-34/76 medium tank. Not many were present in June 1941 but they were there, and became more and more present as time went on.
BA-3/BA-6 and BA-10 Armored Cars. This represents about 3,900 of the armored cars available to Russia in June 1941. There were just over 6,100 armored cars when Barbarossa began, so this is the lion's share of any ACs Russia had.
GAZ-AA/AAA Trucks. Main transportation vehicle.
SU-85 is available from RM, and it came into service in 1942
SU-122 is available from RM, and it came into service in 1942 as well.
German:
Pz IV D/E Medium tank.
Kubelwagon. Main jeep.
Opal Blitz Trucks. Main transportation vehicle.
SdKfz 7 Halftrack. Main heavy transportation vehicle.
SdKfz 251/C and 251/1 D Halftrack. Main armored transportation vehicle.
Pz IV F2/J medium tank. Came into service in 1942.
And we have Pz IIIs in the pipeline somewhere. Not much fighting armor, and transportation heavy when it comes to the German side of things. I do wish we had a plastic Pz II (for example), and the SdKfz 222 seems to have dropped from their web site.
But not a bad assortment for Early War Russian Front.
Edit: Removed KV-1/KV-2 from the list (not Rubicon kits)
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A Panzer II could lead into Marder II which call for a Soviet 76mm AT gun/Towed Artillery since the same gun was used for both.
T-60/T-70 could lead to the popular SU-76.
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Just a small correction to EWG's list , the KV kit is Italeri / Warlord not Rubicon .
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If you are looking for Early War Russian Front kit, to equip both sides, then so far from Rubicon you have:
Russian:
Multiple versions of the T-26 light tank. Of the 21K tanks Russia had in June 1941, over half were T-26
T-34/76 medium tank. Not many were present in June 1941 but they were there, and became more and more present as time went on.
KV-1 and KV-2 Heavy Tanks. Not many were present at the start, but they were there from day one.
BA-3/BA-6 and BA-10 Armored Cars. This represents about 3,900 of the armored cars available to Russia in June 1941. There were just over 6,100 armored cars when Barbarossa began, so this is the lion's share of any ACs Russia had.
GAZ-AA/AAA Trucks. Main transportation vehicle.
SU-85 is available from RM, and it came into service in 1942
SU-122 is available from RM, and it came into service in 1942 as well.
German:
Pz IV D/E Medium tank.
Kubelwagon. Main jeep.
Opal Blitz Trucks. Main transportation vehicle.
SdKfz 7 Halftrack. Main heavy transportation vehicle.
SdKfz 251/C and 251/1 D Halftrack. Main armored transportation vehicle.
Pz IV F2/J medium tank. Came into service in 1942.
And we have Pz IIIs in the pipeline somewhere. Not much fighting armor, and transportation heavy when it comes to the German side of things. I do wish we had a plastic Pz II (for example), and the SdKfz 222 seems to have dropped from their web site.
But not a bad assortment for Early War Russian Front.
Thanks, I should also have said that I don’t want AFVs to be a big feature so my main interest is the smaller tanks, so the T-26 ticks the box absolutely.
Also I’m not to bothered by troop transports as yet. Can’t see the KV-1 and KV-2 though I wouldn’t be interested in those as they are too big. Can’t see any of the Russian armoured cars that you are referring to.
Can’t see a Pz IV D/E either, though it would be ruled out by my ‘only small tank’ rule. An early Pz III
would be good, as you say they are in the pipeline somewhere. And Pz II and Pz I or the Czech stuff would be interesting but no sign of them either.
Of course there is the Warlord Games stuff, but I prefer plastic to resin - but they are bringing out more Italeri stuff. I ended up buying a Warlord Pz 38(t) to face up against my T-26, it is very nice but would have preferred a Pz II.
The point is, I prefer the Rubicon models but the strange release order often means that there are no suitable pairings so I have to go elsewhere.
Cheers,
Nigel
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The Russian armored cars are shown in the General Discussions thread ( Q3 /19) .,IRC the decals are finalized and the instructions are almost done , so release should be soon....
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Panzer IV D, E instructions:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=882.0 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=882.0)
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Because of this...
(https://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/SdKfz%2010/SdKfz%2010%20190921-01_zpsnnpqidf8.jpg)
I just had to update the list at the start of this thread.
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Because of this...
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/9d/a4/Cr2kbnIQ_t.jpg)
I just had to update the list at the start of this thread.
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I've just finished building a Rubicon Flak 88 37 and a PAK 40, so I'm in the mood to come here and join this wish-listing area.
If we're talking about useful kits, we have to be talking about kits that of course have a broad appeal across different factions even. So for me, at the top of the list, is:
"Universal" Kits:
The M5 Halftrack:
What makes this one work? Well, to be short, this is the Halftrack that was utilized by almost every allied country of World War II. Canada, France (Free French), Britain, and the Soviet Union all received this Half-Track as an export model from the United States. If the sprus came with British/Soviet crews, you'd cover x3 of the x4 nations. This kit would be great for collectors and for gamers. Right now the only kit on the market at 28mm scale is the Warlord Resin one.
The M3 Scout Car (crew)
If I'm not mistaken this rendition only comes with an American crew. Again, Britain and the USSR got these IIRC, if there were alternative crews, that'd be a big boon.
The Universal Carrier: Cheap little transport, Commonwealth and Soviets used them.
The Germans:
Right now there is a fantastic selection of German units and weapons already. They had such a huge range, that you'll never fully cover them (lol), but if we were to see a few outliers, I'd say the current ones are...
Field Guns: Howitzers. Both the LEFH and SFH would be great additions to the range, both for players and for collectors.
Mortar Teams: We've got the MG teams and AA guns, why not have Mortar crews?
The Red Army:
Mother Russia could use some Love. There are some holes in the lineup, from Rubicon (and everyone else), so if we're talking practical choices?
Field Guns and Anti-Tank Guns: The 7.6cm field gun, the 122mm howitzer, the 152mm howitzer, hell, even the 203mm Stalin's Sledgehammer (though this one is definitely not practical). Field guns in general are desired by gamers, and offer interesting choices for modelers. The 100mm Anti-tank gun, and even the 85mm anti-air gun, would be welcome additions as well. Though if we're talking about what is most likely to sell, ergo be the most practica: The Howitzers are the top of the list.
Heavy Tanks: The KV-1, KV-2, and IS-2 come to the top of the list, without a doubt.
The Steel Wolves: T-70's and T-60's, though I'd not put these at the top of a practical list, as they're not quite as well known, and I'm not sure of the appeal to the broader audience.
The United States:
Broadly well served, and they have the upcoming Pershing, so for the US, they'll fall into a familiar mold:
Field Guns: Howitzers and AT guns. I see the Quad-50 anti-aircraft guns are coming, though apparently these are resin, which makes me very sad, lol.
The United Kingdom:
They have a ton of stuff coming it seems. Do they have the Churchill coming as well? If so this list is almost over. Even their field guns are on the way, with a variant of the 17 pounder and the 25 pounder in plastic. Perhaps the Bofers AA gun, or some other variants, but by and large, unless someone wants to find something more obscure, I think Britain's being pretty well served (barring the M5 and Universal Carriers).
If we're looking at early war, perhaps the Valentine, or Matilda?
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There is a Valentine in progress http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=903.0 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=903.0)
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Very much agreed with The_Big_Red_Bear's thoughts above. Plastic artillery in particular is a niche crying out to be filled, and I've been very happy with the Pak 40 from Rubicon. Hopefully the planned Allied AT guns and 25-pounder are evidence of an expansion in this field. I'd especially like to see the Soviet guns suggested, since many of them are impossible to find in any material at this scale.
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Yes it would be good to get more field & AT guns . I really like the 28mm PSC Russian AT gun kit , and I'm wondering why they haven't up scaled any of their other kits ? I've built a few of the 20mm kits for a buddy and they're great . Also the Zvedza 1/72 kits are very nice , lots of detail for such small and relatively inexpensive , again why haven't they up scaled to 28mm ?
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Yeah, with how common a ZiS-3 is in Soviet Bolt Action armies, a plastic version in 28mm would seem to be a pretty reliable seller. I've liked the PSC AT guns too – they're a little low on detail in some parts, but honestly no worse than I'd expect the Warlord metal kit is, and likely much easier to assemble.
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Yep! I am actually pretty excited for the Resin 128mm gun that the Germans are getting too, though I'm not quite sure that I'll be getting it, it looks pretty incredible. I've already got x2 Flak 88's and x2 Pak 43's, so I have a great love for fixed artillery guns to begin with. Pragmatic in game, though I'd not say the really light AT variants are practical as they have very limited use, which is why I didn't grab the PSC Soviet AT gun set. I might one day, but... they're door-knockers. Firing that at something even like a Panzer 4 isn't gonna yield good results I think, lol.
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The great thing about plastic kits is that you can add what's lacking and with a little thought and modelling know how , can remove what's incorrect . Aside from no sights , some breach details , no stowage boxes on the rear of the shield , cleaning rods , and those fiddley bits on the trail legs that always get broken , the PSC 45mm guns are pretty good . If you use them with the crew , most of the most of the missing bits of gun carriage can't be seen anyway . I added most of the missing parts to the guns I built with out crew . The 76mm Infantry gun version needs to most work because the gun shield is different , but there are ways to fudge that and make it look the part .
Good reference books are your friend , this one by Wings & Wheels Publications is excellent , covering both versions of the Russian 45mm , the 76mm Infantry gun , the 57mm ZIS-2 and 76mm ZIS-3
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0vbbHxQ/Soviet-Anti-Tank-Artillery-W-WP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0vbbHxQ)
They also have a couple of other books covering both Russian & German Field Artillery , as well as lots of tank and soft skin vehicle books .
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Yeah, with how common a ZiS-3 is in Soviet Bolt Action armies, a plastic version in 28mm would seem to be a pretty reliable seller. I've liked the PSC AT guns too – they're a little low on detail in some parts, but honestly no worse than I'd expect the Warlord metal kit is, and likely much easier to assemble.
@thunderplunk: I can't agree with you more. I'm just waiting for someone to make a good plastic ZiS-3 AT-Gun so I can replace all my metal ones.
I also have the PSC AT guns, and I like them over the metal AT guns. Both in detail and for other reasons. In fact, I picked up two boxes even though I only needed one to replace the metal ones I had.
@The_Big_Red_Bear: I know what you mean about the big guns. I have both the Rubicon Models 88 kit and the Italeri 88 kit. The only time I have used one of mine in a game was for an objective, so if did not take part in the game - other than just being an objective marker. On the other hand, my PaK36s, PaK38s, and Pak40s get used frequently when needed. All of mine are Rubicon Models now.
@ripley: Thanks for the book suggestion. even though I already have "Soviet Field Artillery in World War II: Including Use by the German Wehrmacht" by Michael Foedrowitz (Schiffer book), I will have to look into adding your recommendation because I know the WWP books are pretty good, and can be useful at times.
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Because of this...
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/9d/a4/Cr2kbnIQ_t.jpg)
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/8f/4a/tItNOZFa_t.jpg)
The list at the start of this thread is getting an extra bonus because Rubicon Models made some fantastic changes to their upcoming Panzer II kit so that the kit will have the option to be built with an angled or a rounded front hull for the Ausf.A/B/C.
Even better because with the Panzer II Ausf.F option, the more experienced model makers might be able to take a RM Panzer II kit plus a RM PaK40 kit plus some Evergreen plastic, and maybe easily scratch build an SdKfz.131 Marder II (not to be confused with the SdKfz 132 Marder II).
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I don't know it would be easy to kit bash a Marder II , but it would be a lot of fun trying . Actually I'm hoping Rubicon rethink how they layout their sprues , right now it's all willy nilly with various parts for turret , hull and wheels together on one sprue . I think all lower hull parts ( track , sprockets , wheels ) should be on one sprue , upper hull , tools , stowage , on the 2nd sprue , and then the third , depending on the size of the vehicle , turret and crew parts . Then if they decide to release , for example a Marder II , they already have the lower hull sprue sorted. If the panzer IV was designed this way , you would only need to design upper hulls and associated bits to make a Stug IV , Jdg Panzer IV , Brumbar , etc , as the lower hull and wheel sets would be a common sprue .The Warlord 38(t) and Marder III kits I just built were designed like that and Dragon has used this approach for years in 1/35 scale . What do you guys think ?
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Good suggestions ripley, but Rubicon Models expressed an interest in wanting to keep this a two sprue kit. Things might change, so who knows until the kit is in the final stages.
If the cost for making each sprue wasn't so high, I think Rubicon Models would focus more on future parts usage and less on just present usage to keep the sprue count down. I am no expert (far from it), but I do know that it's a careful balance between sprue count (especially cost) and kit diversity and expandability. That is if the latter is even a priority. Rubicon Models is always expressing that they are learning something new with each new project.
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It's true that in this scale it might not work for smaller vehicles . The 38(t) kit has a Rubicon sized sprue for the track & lower body , but the upper hull , turret & crew sprue was about the size of a plastic weapons sprue from Warlord . I'm just thinking it would have worked with the vehicles based on a late G-H panzer IV hull , and the M3 - M4 ( not A4 ) & Priest , all based on the same hull with variations in wheel design .
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I just had to update the lists (see first page of this thread).
The good news for us gamers (and modellers) is that soon the "Focusing on the more useful kits" lists will get much shorter! :)
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Because of this...
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/5b/ec/aVIB0rY7_t.jpg)
I had to update the list at the very start of this thread.
This might be the last update. :-X
Some of us are still hoping for:
M3 Medium (Lee) – best if it can be a Lee & Grant kit. Two birds with one stone.
57mm Gun M1 / QF 6-pounder (American/British) AT-Gun – best if it can be a combo kit. Two birds with one stone. Similar to what RM did with their Jeep kit.
Also some Soviet AT-Guns and an SU-76 wouldn't be a bad addition as well.
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Tracks, the 57mm/6pdr gun is also in the pipeline.
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Tracks, the 57mm/6pdr gun is also in the pipeline.
Really? Don't tease my friend :)
That's great to hear, and the good thing about this AT-Gun is that it can probably be marketed as an American or British AT-Gun because the American 57mm gun M1 was a very close copy of the British QF 6-Pdr. I'm sure Rubicon Models can easily take advantage of this by making the kit with the option to assemble either the British QF 6-Pdr or the American 57mm gun M1. Also, maybe with extra bonus bits to make the American Paratrooper version of the 57mm gun M1. This would make it very marketable. Lots of potential for this little kit.
As for the crew, Rubicon Models can do the same thing that they did with their Jeep kits. That is, have a different sprue for the crew.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/VrdDqqXh/6pdr.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrdDqqXh)
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I wonder if RM will make an American version (The 57mm M1) with crew.
I hope they don't miss out on that this AT-Gun can probably be marketed as an American or British AT-Gun
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Because of this...
(https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/f6/9e/kRyDeJEg_t.png)
I had to update the list at the very start of this thread.
Because the long awaited M3 Medium tank is on its way.
Also, some of us are still hoping that the QF 6-pounder AT-Gun mentioned above will be a 57mm Gun M1 / QF 6-pounder (American/British) AT-Gun combo kit.
Similar to what RM did with their Jeep kit.
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I have updated the list at the very start of this thread to include a few bits of new information (new releases).
Still hoping to see the QF 6-pounder AT-Gun mentioned earlier turned into a 57mm Gun M1 / QF 6-pounder (American/British) AT-Gun combo kit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VrdDqqXh/6pdr.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrdDqqXh)