Rubicon Models

Rubicon Models => Showcase & Gallery => Topic started by: Jimmy_P on April 16, 2018, 07:21:32 PM

Title: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 16, 2018, 07:21:32 PM
Thought I should probably start one of these; got a few bits on the go at the moment - foremostly the Warlord M18 which I'm hoping to add the Rubicon TD crew to, would really appreciate some thoughts on that once I've taken a few photos of it.

Until then thought I'd upload some of my previous Rubicon builds, nothing particularly exciting, all pretty average tabletop standard but a bit of a mix of different things. Oh and please don't pay any attention to the water pot I use for painting, I've had it for a long time!  ::)


(https://s18.postimg.cc/jyey0w2r9/DSC_0116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/jyey0w2r9/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/bg5hx1oo5/DSC_0124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bg5hx1oo5/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/advbe65r9/DSC_0102.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/advbe65r9/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/h4bsnw3ad/DSC_0126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h4bsnw3ad/)

Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 16, 2018, 08:06:52 PM
Very nice . Tiger looks really good , Whats the octopus decal on the Panther turret ? I don't recall that SS Panzer Division lol
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 16, 2018, 08:48:09 PM
Thanks! Ha, I'm afraid the Tesseract-power Panther is based on the HYDRA Panzer Divisions (circa 1945)... :P


So, taken some photos of the Hellcat. The internal detail on the turret is actually really nice in this kit, though weirdly thats part of them problem... possibly I'm overthinking things, but as you can see into the turrent (and out the bottom) to me I think it's going to be pretty obvious that the crew figures are missing their lower extremities...

(https://s18.postimg.cc/3v7iyoctx/DSC_0110.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3v7iyoctx/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/nd26emhhh/DSC_0113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nd26emhhh/)

Perhaps once properly assembled and painted it won't be too obvious, but I'm not convinced of that. Don't know if anyone else has built this kit but I struggled to find any decent pictures online of how it looks once completed (with crew). Plus it's missing one crew member anyway. So I was hoping to use the Rubion crew to add the third crew member and/or replace some of the existing crew. Having done a bit of research, I put one of the rubicon TD crew on the gunners seat. With the breech etc and the extra crew body filling the turret space, I hoped it would mean you couldn't really see/notice that the crew were only part-figures.

(https://s18.postimg.cc/z3kp9gpad/DSC_0137.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/z3kp9gpad/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/ji3dpil1x/DSC_0139.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ji3dpil1x/)

I think it works okay with the loader but the tank commander is still pretty obviously missing the bottom part of his legs. Not sure whether to replace him with another of the rubicon ones and have him sitting lower in the turret, behind the gunner? Assuming that I've got their positions in the turret right!

Or perhaps try and use some plastic US infantry to "donate" some legs for him (might end up doing both options in different Hellcats - have another two to build after this one). Any thoughts or other ideas?

Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 16, 2018, 11:05:07 PM
Thanks! Ha, I'm afraid the Tesseract-power Panther is based on the HYDRA Panzer Divisions (circa 1945)... :P
That is not historical, as everyone knows Hydra used FV432s brought back through time from the British Army sell off ^___^.

Nice engine glow effect.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 16, 2018, 11:09:33 PM
Oh and please don't pay any attention to the water pot I use for painting, I've had it for a long time!  ::)
More pictures of the water pot!
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 16, 2018, 11:18:38 PM
Nice models. Clean scheme on the Tiger is good. The whitewash on the T34 looks suitably worn.

Good point on the hellcat, does seem daft to have  half crew on an open topped turret. You could try sawing the legs etc off of some Warlord plastics or spare Rubicon Jeep crew.

We are looking for crew for our Waffentragers at the moment, but that has a tiny turret. Just thought, the Airborne Jeep crew might make a good gunner for the waffentrager.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 17, 2018, 07:47:54 AM
Weird War stuff  ::) ok , sorry I don't really follow the "47" , Dust kind of stuff , so I really couldn't figure out what it was  :-[ . As an open top vehicle ,the Hellcat will be OD green , inside and out , if you paint the crew in  OD uniform  colors the fact that  they are missing limbs shouldn't be noticed . I've added pieces of tubing or a 1/56 scale 45 gallon fuel drum to half figures to give them some substance ,just paint the same color  as the rest of the uniform . You could instead  use the tube on the seated figure and add his legs to the commander . Might be time to order a couple of BA figure sprues to have on hand for kit bashing , or maybe pick up a cheap Tamiya 1/48 figure set .
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 18, 2018, 03:57:51 AM

Thanks guys! Yeah, afraid the Panther is part of a Marvel-themed K47 / "weird war" army - though I have built enough to field a proper platoon of them for Chain of Command, etc. Sadly haven't seen any 1/56 FV452s so I had to make do with the Panther  :P like the idea of having a few more paper panzers with them, so the waffentrager is on the list!

Good ideas for the Hellcat crew, hadn't thought about the jeep crew (haven't got one yet - have an excuse now haha!) and will probably pick up a couple of BA sprues to help with kitbashing. The new Rubicon M8/M20 crew set has a chap with all of his limbs so that might be an option for the cdr too.

And I guess you're probably right Ripley that once it's all painted it'll not be noticed. On that note; the Hellcat instructions list US Field Drab for the paint colour - but I'd read in a few different places about using Vallejo Brown Violet (seriously weird name for a green paint!). Now I'm colour blind so that chances I'd notice the difference between the shades of green are pretty small, but it'd be useful to know what you guys reckon is the better paint to use!

Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 18, 2018, 04:22:34 AM
Thanks guys! Yeah, afraid the Panther is part of a Marvel-themed K47 / "weird war" army - though I have built enough to field a proper platoon of them for Chain of Command, etc. Sadly haven't seen any 1/56 FV452s so I had to make do with the Panther.

Sloppy Jalopy do a 1/56 resin FV432, it is taking a while to assemble.

I forgot to pick up the Lucid Eye Project Sturm figures at Salute:
http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/product/projekt-sturm/ (http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/product/projekt-sturm/)

Superheroey stuff:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A.G.E.N.T.S. (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A.G.E.N.T.S.)
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 18, 2018, 07:49:53 AM
I've always used Brown Violet as a Brit color , I've done both my Churchills in it and I did my Sherman in the Humbrol enamel which closely matches it  ( Matt 155) which Humbol  call Matt Olive Drab   ::) . I feel its much too brown for OD . Your best bet would be Model Color 889 US Olive Drab or 873 US Field Drab , which is a brown shade of OD  ( I've always thought it was a uniform color ) . The problem with any shade of OD ( and IRC there are about 5 used in WWII  ) is that if you do find your perfect shade , once you add a wash to your vehicle , your perfect shade  is gone . I usually do a few test strips of various paint and washes , ( Army Painter , GW & Vallejo ) to see how each wash changes each base paint . And plain old early war German Grey/Gray , however you spell it , is just the same PIA as OD . Go with what looks right for you , its your hobby , your kit , there is no one "right" color . Just look at all the variations in Panzer Yellow , OD & Russian Green tanks  on some of the large scale hobby sights by the  guys who get stuff published in magazines
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 18, 2018, 03:53:10 PM
... Vallejo Brown Violet (seriously weird name for a green paint!).
Ah, you should try Improved Engine Green for misleading or odd colour names:
https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/50p476g (https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/50p476g)
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 18, 2018, 04:02:10 PM
My choice of colour can be blamed on the Flames of War rules that came with their starter set a while back (I think I downloaded them from their site). The British tank instructions were PSC spray British tank green or Vallejo Russian Uniform Green.

As Ripley mentioned, washes and shades can alter the colour drastically, my Shermans and the M5A1 used PSC British tank green and the Studebaker and the T34 used Humbrol Dark Green.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 20, 2018, 05:25:38 PM

Sloppy Jalopy do a 1/56 resin FV432, it is taking a while to assemble.

I forgot to pick up the Lucid Eye Project Sturm figures at Salute:
http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/product/projekt-sturm/ (http://www.crooked-dice.co.uk/wp/product/projekt-sturm/)

Superheroey stuff:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A.G.E.N.T.S. (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A.G.E.N.T.S.)

Cool! My Red Skull is based on one of the Lucid Eye models. Your AGENTS stuff looks great  :D
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 20, 2018, 05:33:41 PM

Thanks for the thoughts about paint colour guys. The silly thing is, being red/green colour blind, all of the different makes and versions of Olive Drab (or any green/brown paint for that matter) all look the same to me - so it's difficult to say what looks right to me, as they all do!  :P

I guess that makes me a little OCD about using the "right" colour (though I know that is a troublesome thing to define), rather than going for any old shade of green/brown which might look fine to my eyes but could look off to anyone else.

Found this article by Steve Zaloga which might be of interest (although you've probably seen it before), not that it's helped me much, just made me less sure what to use! On the plus side, I've assembled the Rubicon M20 car whilst I've been trying to work out how to paint stuff!

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/olive-drab/4536/

Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Pinky on April 20, 2018, 06:40:02 PM
I've linked that Zaloga thread before.  The trouble is that the supposedly correct shade of OD always looks too brown.  I prefer something more like the colour that Tracks used for his US tanks.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 20, 2018, 08:06:15 PM
I think I would  go with Vellejo Model Air Olive Drab .043 , should be easyist paint to pick up these days . A few of those companies are gone now , well I guess that article did come out 16 years ago .  Funny , the chip shows Humbroll 155 as looking greenish , my tin is a more brown shade to my eye , but Humbrol has changed the formula / ingredients from time to time over the years .  Its funny how your eye works , find a reasonable shade of OD  or German Grey and paint a large scale ( 1/32 ) tank , looks great , use the same color on a 1/72 tank and it looks wrong , Don't quite understand why that happens , but lightening the color seems to work on smaller scales .
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Pinky on April 20, 2018, 10:00:17 PM
Ripley - apparently colours will always appear darker on a smaller object.  That's why colour chips can be confusing.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 21, 2018, 02:41:43 AM

Sounds like a plan. Brown wash though (or green?)?
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 21, 2018, 03:44:44 AM
I use a GW brown wash on the tank . and a GW black wash on the metal parts of the track , followed by a watered down brown wash
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 21, 2018, 05:12:24 AM
I have used Citadel Agrax Earthshade and the camoshade on them, earthshade for the grubbier ones.

http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=281.msg4838#msg4838 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=281.msg4838#msg4838)
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Ballardian on April 21, 2018, 11:03:43 PM

 It's a never ending quest to find the 'right' shade, but the Mig Ammo OD modulation set is pretty decent - 4 shades of US OD from  shadow to final high-light, I did some 15mm M4A3's & an M26 a while ago, & yes, I definately way overdid the chipping :P


(https://s18.postimg.cc/unaay3v2d/15mm_Shermans_Pershing_stage_4_streaking_pigments.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/unaay3v2d/)
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 22, 2018, 01:13:08 AM
. They look like they've been through a hell of a battle , very nice . All that's missing is a disorderly pile of stowage and crew kit  ;D
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Tracks on April 23, 2018, 05:44:07 PM
Ripley - apparently colours will always appear darker on a smaller object.  That's why colour chips can be confusing.
Let me jump on the band wagon and add my $0.02 worth.

Colors are strange because they change depending on lighting, object surface and material, background color(s), view angle, and view distance. These and several other factors play a significant role in how we perceive a color. Lighting being the most significant of course.

Supporting what Pinky stated, if we take one large and one small object and paint them the exact same color, that color might appear different under certain conditions, and regardless of size it appears to change at distance. That is, from a distance a color might appear lighter or darker depending on other conditions.

And don't get me started on using actual color photographs - one of the least reliable sources for determining a "true" color. Especially old WW2 color photographs. I will save these details as to why for maybe another post because it will be a very long description and lots of details.

Making it more difficult is that most of the time a recording device (a camera for example) and your eye almost ever see/record the same color. Using the two pictures below as an example:

(https://s19.postimg.cc/ojzhe0wfz/Pak36_rm.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ojzhe0wfz/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/d1djwu34v/Pzr38tx2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/d1djwu34v/)

This may be a surprise to learn, but both the Pak 36 and the Panzer 38(t)s are painted in the exact same Panzer Gray color. The Pak 36 looks almost back because of many factors. The Panzer 38(t)s also appears lighter color because of several factors.  At the time when I took the picture, to my eye the Pak 36 was lighter in color and the Panzer 38(t)s were darker in color than the actual pictures.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 23, 2018, 08:15:59 PM
Yup, colour is weird (I did a two day course on it back in the 'eighties, I felt no wiser afterwards).

Lighting is important, I did some comparisons here:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/lead-legion-colours.html (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/lead-legion-colours.html)

Sorry, real life interfered and interrupted  my ramblings.

One of the reasons why smaller things look darker is how our brains interpret things, binocular vision only works out to a short distance after that ranging is dependent on how things appear (which is why 3D films often look odd). Reversing the logic if you have a smaller version of an object, your brain takes the size cues and reinterprets what the eye sees.

Photographs are dependent on the recording media, chemical recordings vary dependent on temperature, processing and other settings. Digital recording adds software processing at the recording stage and the "developing" stage.

Unless you are using RAW together with fixed exposure and aperture settings, it is difficult to get consistent colours.
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Tracks on April 24, 2018, 02:05:49 AM
Unless you are using RAW together with fixed exposure and aperture settings, it is difficult to get consistent colours.

Even then you can have some difficulty with consistent colors.

Supporting what ultravanillasmurf just said above, I'm edger to find the comparison "Color Test" picture  I made a very long time ago. I'm hoping it is still on an old HD because I could not find it in my archived data.

It is very similar to what ultravanillasmurf did above (see his link). For my card I used eight different standard colors (black, white, yellow, blue, red, green, orange, and purple) painted on white card into 2.5cm x 2.5cm squares creating a colored checkered board (sixteen squares). Two sets of eight colors side-by-side on the same card. I then photographed the card with direct outdoor sunlight (very clear day), outdoor complete overcast, using "Daylight" light bulb lighting, standard incandescent lighting, fluorescent lighting, and several other different other lighting sources. The results were remarkable because the colors appeared to be completely different at times! Did I mention that when I took the pictures, I also used two different angles - 90 and 45 degrees - for each lighting source as well as a few different camera settings.

I also wanted to do the same tests by spraying the entire card with a clear gloss. However, I never got around to doing this.

Studying colors is a tricky business.

As a side note, I would like to add one more thing to this topic. I have met a few people that restore WW2 combat vehicles, and most like to be as accurate as possible right down to the color of paint. One individual even used actual surplus WW2 American army green paint (olive drab) to paint the vehicles. This surplus paint was of the earlier war color, and he gave me some in a small bottle. Of course I compared this with most of model paints I had. None were a perfect match, but a few came close. I think the old Humbrol MC21 "French Artillery Green" came pretty close. Of course the color changes depending on the weathering and other stuff applied to the model - including any filters.

For those that use Vallajo paints, I find that Brown Violet (70.887) is pretty close, but not a perfect match, for the Humbrol MC21 "French Artillery Green".
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: Jimmy_P on April 24, 2018, 06:36:24 AM
Colour is very weird! I've always found these sorts of discussions fascinating, even though most of the nuances in shade, etc are lost on me.

So my local store didn't have the VJ Model Air range - I got the Model Colour Olive Drab, but it does look very much in the brown category to me. Having now looked online, it seems that it is quite a different colour (doh!), so will try and order the Air version of the Olive Drab from somewhere. In the mean time, I might try using the Brown Violet and see how it looks as I already have that.

So with the painting having to wait I stupidly thought I'd try playing around with the breech assembly. Having looked at a lot of photos of the Hellcat to try and work out how best to fit the crew into the turret, it also was obvious that that there was some detailing missing (and wrong!) on the kit and so thought I'd have a go adding some brass rod - kind of inspired by UVS' work on the Waffentrager - but unfortunately less successful (partially complicated by the fact I'd already added the Rubicon crew and undercoated the turret interior).

The original (real) Hellcat:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/46v1mau5h/42014089-770-0_2_X.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/46v1mau5h/)


Attempt to copy:

(https://s18.postimg.cc/q61g9h0p1/DSC_0150.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/q61g9h0p1/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/bzlpe8i45/DSC_0149.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bzlpe8i45/)


So, with hindsight I think if you want to do this properly you'd need to scratchbuild the breech assembly as it's not quite right (and obviously do it before starting to paint or adding the crew!). Not sure if my bodge job is worth it and tempted to leave it out (the rod isn't glued in yet). What do you guys think?

Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ripley on April 24, 2018, 07:41:52 AM
I think with a little paint it will look the part . These kits are small enough , you don't have to go all scale scratch build unless your really crazy  Shep Paine , the guy who built all those awesome 1/32 Monogram tank model dioramas  ( and 1/48 wingy things ) back in the 70s  had the right idea , just use what ever looks the part , the human eye will fill in most of the missing details and over look things that under careful scuitany would stand out .  For example he used Airfix wagon wheels as fans on his Panzer IV , took me 20 years the realize they ere the wrong shape :-[ And I've got books with pictures of Panzer IV engine compartments , it was just so cool you thought it "looked" right .  Those family and friends who look at your " toy " collection wouldn't know what the vehicle is never mind the extra detail you added to it . In fact a lot of model tank builders probably wouldn't know what improvements you've made to the kit unless they've actually  built one themselves .  I couldn't tell you if the shape of your breach guard is correct , I'm not up on the Hellcat , but I would know that it was missing because all tank guns have a guard of some sort to protect the crew . I've added some to my Panzer 3 , 4 with open turret side doors , as well to my  1941 T-34s  because its what you see when you look in the hatch . Are they the right size and shape , no but they look the part which is good enough for me . Same can be said for the internal details on the turret side doors , its not exact but looks the part
(https://s7.postimg.cc/7b6xnqnqv/IMG_20180423_174048514.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7b6xnqnqv/)
Title: Re: Jimmys WIP Thread
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 24, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
That looks good. Following Ballardian's idea, you might want to add the lever on top of the breech.

As mentioned above, you just need to give the impression

What thickness rod did you use? I have 0.4mm (4mm scale handrails), 0.7mm (7mm scale handrails) and 1.0 and 1.5mm (various reinforcement and gun barrels).

By the way, are you going to call your M18 "Patsy" (or more obscurely "Rachel")?