Author Topic: Colour photos of WW2 armour  (Read 1810 times)

Golf Alpha Zulu

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2017, 08:20:57 PM »
Thanks so much for posting those pix.

I really like that apparent series. Its conjecture, but I enjoy the idea that a series of pix of a unit, all taken on a particular day, with one camera, one lens, hell, possibly even on only one roll of precious color film, are now our link to that particular past...

In terms of color reference, they are very useful, but not definitive. The various color casts caused by the limitations of 1940s film stock, and the bleaching of exposure, processing and printing, (let alone the scanning, color modeling  and compression processes they went through to get them onto our - variable - computer screens) make some of them difficult to "translate". (I read some of the the German images as having a distinct pink color cast in the highlights, for example)

For what its worth, the road sign pointing left appears to me to be a 6 character name, starting with O or G, third character a descender (q, g or y) with a distance indicator (7 or 1 km) immediately after.

ripley

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2017, 09:46:00 PM »
The Horch fender has a large feather with a sword through it - looks like X . Not  any Wehrmacht or SS Panzer symbol I can find in the books I have  . I know I've seen it before , even on a  1/35 decal sheet  . Infantry unit maybe ?

Pinky

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2017, 11:07:32 PM »
I really like that apparent series. Its conjecture, but I enjoy the idea that a series of pix of a unit, all taken on a particular day, with one camera, one lens, hell, possibly even on only one roll of precious color film, are now our link to that particular past...

I know what you mean.  I like to think one member of the unit had a camera, and took all of these over several months.  Some seem to have been deliberately composed to emphasise the vastness of the Ukraine.  It seems strange, for instance, that one tank would be sitting alone (or maybe the rest of the unit was behind the camera). As this unit may well have been swallowed up in Stalingrad, it's amazing theses photos survived.

Quote
In terms of color reference, they are very useful, but not definitive. The various color casts caused by the limitations of 1940s film stock, and the bleaching of exposure, processing and printing, (let alone the scanning, color modeling  and compression processes they went through to get them onto our - variable - computer screens) make some of them difficult to "translate". (I read some of the the German images as having a distinct pink color cast in the highlights, for example)

I think the American photos are very close to 'true colour'.  I agree that the colours may not be entirely accurate in others - apparently that's the type of film the Germans used (Agfacolor?).  The Panzer IV series definitely has a bluish hue.

The Horch fender has a large feather with a sword through it - looks like X . Not  any Wehrmacht or SS Panzer symbol I can find in the books I have  . I know I've seen it before , even on a  1/35 decal sheet  . Infantry unit maybe ?

I can't find a divisional sign that matches.  The scimitar was used by an SS unit, but not this symbol.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 10:03:30 AM by Pinky »

Ballardian

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2017, 03:54:41 AM »
I came across this (fairly well known) pic of a Tiger II with its unusual 'Octopus' pattern - it's an interesting case in point of the difficulties in determining accurate colours from period pictures. The scheme is showcased in AK Interactives '1945 German Colours Camouflage Profile Guide' (it gets p.25 to itself) and claims the colours to most likely be RAL 7028 (Dunklegelb III) with the darker pattern being RAL 6003 (Olivegrun). I'm in no position to to gainsay their methodology (the authors claim objective analysis & their rationale seems fair) but it is a good example of how the colours on pictures aren't as fixed as we'd like, with the green just about discernable through the prominance of the overall brown cast  - that said, it's a great pic!

« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 03:58:31 AM by Ballardian »

Pinky

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2017, 09:53:13 AM »
Very interesting.  I hadn't see that photo in colour before.  There are several kit versions of this vehicle.  I guess one of the crew was a fan of surrealist art.

tyroflyer

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »
The thought occurs to me the artwork on this tank could be post war. Or at least after it was abandoned. It just doesn't look right somehow.

ripley

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2017, 11:32:48 AM »
No this was knocked out late spring 45 in Hungry IRC . Its a one of a kind paint scheme , non others found according to various folks on the missing -lynx site . And these guys are the real deal , noted authors , historians and collectors of artifacts and photo collections . A real great site for learning about the design and use of both Allied and German vehicles as well as tons of fantastic model builds in numerous scales

tyroflyer

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 11:47:40 AM »
Thanks ripley. I guess I'd have felt a lot more comfortable if the picture was of the tank in service. You never know who was around with a can of paint.

ultravanillasmurf

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2017, 05:35:41 PM »
I assume whatever killed it caused a fire at the rear (hence the rusty area on the turret). The symbol on the glacis is a bit odd in position and form.

Pinky

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2017, 08:36:35 PM »
I'm sure the swastika (which is the wrong way around) was painted by someone after it was knocked out.

ripley

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2017, 09:49:12 PM »
Found more info .  Knocked out near Kassel Germany late April 45 ( not Hungry my bad  :-[  ) One of last batch from factory , note narrow transport track . Mix of old and new parts , mg ring on turret , no foliage loops , older style front fender , no tool mounts . So the factory used up parts on hand to get it built , track factory had been bombed by now so no wide track . Supposed to have sat where it was knocked out till next year when it was cut up . During that time, nazi symbol added . Great contention on paint scheme as only green and yellow supposed to be used late Apr . Red might be rust from fire damage or primer ( oh the arguing on ML  ::))





Only 7 or 8 close up photos of this beast known ( these are 3 ) Some more from a distance , said to be this tank , near overpass , Kassel . To my untrained eye , the sit of the tank on the verge , dirrection of turret , gun etc , it looks like it  though . One of the holy Grails of WW2

Ballardian

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2017, 11:10:35 PM »
Nice detective work Ripley! There are pictures of other knocked out/abandoned AFVs with similar crude whitewashed swastikas - usually quite large & in places which would stongly suggest their addition was after the fact.
 (Interestingly, quite a number of pictures of this particular Tiger II don't have the swastika on the glacis - it appears to have been added between the earlier pictures you posted & the one I did - perhaps added by the original photographers then?)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 11:15:53 PM by Ballardian »

ripley

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2017, 12:45:58 AM »
There is a larger version of the colorized picture with a woman to the left of the tank . What looks like a road in the distance is really a frozen river ( picture taken spring 45 ? ) . They colored the tank but gave up on the far background as its all whites and greys ( could also be actual color of area in winter , it looks the same here in rural Alberta for 7 months of the year at least  ::) )  This tank like the Tiger I with small crane in Italy leave a lot of questions unanswered .

tyroflyer

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2017, 03:48:28 PM »
At the risk of heresy is it possible the octopus pattern is more representative of the tanks demise at the hands of the allies than it is this particularly ferocious cat? I confess I don't really have a clue but all the photo's appear to be after its demise. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 03:52:35 PM by tyroflyer »

Pinky

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Re: Colour photos of WW2 armour
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2017, 03:54:53 PM »
I'd suggest it was the crew's interpretation of the 'ambush' scheme - possibly using just green and dark yellow, but maybe by leaving primer visible as well.  I can't see why anyone would have bothered with adding paint to a wreck (other than the reversed swastika, possible added to mark it as a German wreck for the purposes of collection).  The tank would have been built in the Henschel factory in Kassel, and was (apparently) issued to s.Pz.Abt 510.  The city was captured by the US Army.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 04:07:46 PM by Pinky »