Author Topic: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Project CLOSED!  (Read 35048 times)

airborne

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Decal Sheet Design 151116
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2015, 04:08:14 am »
I noticed a shock when I looked at the photos of the two units tonight, I saw that for some reason the axe shovel have been replaced from the original drawings. The axe holder if welded to a vehicle would be in a fixed location be it jeep or M8 or M20. Pattons photo is a great reference for these. Hope it can be fixed? Iv`e been scanning you tube footage and found that the M8 axe and shovel fall as on the model, the M20 as of the drawings .61 years old and only just spotted the difference, perhaps there`s hope for this old dog yet. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 03:48:48 am by airborne »

Rubicon Models

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2016, 01:30:49 pm »
We have taken some time off to review the Italeri M8/M20 plastic kit.  There is always something we can learn from our brethren manufacturers.

It is hard not to be bias as a studio designer, but this is probably because our design philosophy is different from the start.  While Italeri’s background is from making military models, we are more miniature gaming oriented.  Italeri used their expertise to downsize their 1/35 M8 and M20 military model kits into their 1/56 M8/M20 combo kit, we build ours from scratch with the gamer in mind based on up-to-date reference material.

With more books and photos available in the media, we are surprised Italeri did not double check for historical accuracy as the M8 and M20 had some subtle design differences.  Here is our finding:

- Good overall design and parts layout
- Too many unnecessary small parts for the average gamer
- Tyre tread pattern is definitely wrong – should be arranged alternatively instead of parallel on both sizes of each tyre
- The M8 gun ring height is too low
- The M8 turret shape is wrong
- The M8 mantlet shape is wrong
- The undercarriage suspension design (while good for modelling) is bad for gaming – with six wheels on the table, the vehicle can be wobbly
- Significant amount of mould lines on the sprue
- No side storage bins, only mine rack or jerry can rack
- Wrong radio position inside the hull cabin
- No rivets on the fender armour

This is not an attack on Italeri, we are just reviewing the kit from a gamer and modeler point of view.
Italeri's plastic kits had always been an inspiration to us to do a better job!

If anyone think this is not appropriate, we can take this down anytime.
;)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 03:26:08 pm by Rubicon Models »

Pinky

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2016, 01:25:14 am »
Hey, it's your forum - you can say what you like!

Is it a downsized 1/35 scale kit, or an upsized 1/72 scale kit?  I thought the latter.  It definitely looks wrong in the photos of the finished model.

To add a bit of balance, it's worth noting that the other recent Italeri 1/56 kits, like the StuG III and Panzer III, have been very good.  And there are accuracy issues with some Rubicon kits too (quite a lot, in the case of the Panzer III - admittedly an early effort).  I guess it's harder to understand with a company like Italeri which has so much experience.  But they've always been a bit hit-and-miss.   
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 12:36:06 pm by Pinky »

elias.tibbs

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2016, 04:46:08 am »
It's downsized, which would explain the little bits that could of been done with larger bits or not used at all. The puma suffered from the same issue.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
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Pinky

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2016, 12:28:24 pm »
Yes, I didn't really like the Puma kit.  There seemed to be more parts for the suspension than the rest of the kit put together.  Then, bizarrely, they provided hollowed-out wheels, which completely undermines the rationale for providing a detailed suspension.  It's not really a wargaming model.

Going back to Rubicon's original post:

Quote
While Italeri’s background is from making military models, we are more miniature gaming oriented.  Italeri used their expertise to downsize their 1/35 M8 and M20 military model kits into their 1/56 M8/M20 combo kit, we build ours from scratch with the gamer in mind based on up-to-date reference material.

Italeri actually have a lot of experience with 'pure' wargaming models, as they have a range of them in 1/72 scale.  They are mostly quite good in terms of a compromise between accuracy, ease of assembly and robustness.  It seems odd that their approach to 1/56 scale wargaming kits has been so inconsistent.  Their StuG III and Panzer III are examples of them getting it right (their Panther A and Tiger I are pretty good too).  Maybe they rushed the M8/M20 to compete with Rubicon's?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 12:36:25 pm by Pinky »

johan

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2016, 02:12:53 pm »
Italeri had the M8/M20 in their preview for 2015 releases in Nürenberg already. Even before Rubicon announced theirs.

Rubicon Models

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2016, 02:19:40 pm »
Italeri had the M8/M20 in their preview for 2015 releases in Nürenberg already. Even before Rubicon announced theirs.

We don't "announce" our releases until the project had actually started.  Our average turnaround project completion lead time is 4 months.
BTW, Italeri had announced more than a single M8/M20 kit.  Unfortunately, only one was released.

Pinky

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2016, 02:46:44 pm »
Italeri had the M8/M20 in their preview for 2015 releases in Nürenberg already. Even before Rubicon announced theirs.

My recollection is that Rubicon had said that they would be doing an M8/M20 and an M10/M36 before Italeri's preview catalogue appeared.  Italeri/Warlord's releases have tracked Rubicon's fairly closely.  That may be partly coincidence (subjects like the StuG III and Panzer III are staples of any range of WW2 AFVs), but only partly.  I think it's telling that Italeri have yet to release the M10/M30 kit that they previewed in early 2015 - and Rubicon's M8/M20 would have been released earlier than Italeri/Warlord's if not for problems with the packaging.

airborne

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2016, 04:53:12 am »
Is this the same beast that sells under the Warlord boxes ? .Istill 

Pinky

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2016, 02:35:38 pm »
Is this the same beast that sells under the Warlord boxes ?

Yes, the M8/M20 that Warlord are selling is an Italeri kit.

airborne

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2016, 11:24:25 pm »
Thank you. I`m going Rubicon all the way this American group of vehicles makes an old heart warm. Cheers Pinky.

Rubicon Models

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Re: M8 Greyhound / M20 Armoured Utility Car - Italeri Kit Review (no photo)
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2016, 11:45:18 pm »
Thank you. I`m going Rubicon all the way this American group of vehicles makes an old heart warm. Cheers Pinky.

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...plus the Willy jeep later this year!!
;)