Author Topic: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)  (Read 8522 times)

Pinky

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Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« on: February 19, 2015, 08:51:40 pm »
I see that Warlord are about to release a 3-in-1 kit of the T-34/76.  It will have three different 76mm turrets, including 2 1943 variants.  I think I mentioned before that I wished Rubicon had supplied a 1943 turret with their T-34/76 - it's a lovely kit, but I think many wargamers would have preferred to be able to build the later version.  Anyway, the T-34/76 comes hot on the heels of their Tiger I, which also duplicates Rubicon's excellent 3-in-1 Tiger I.  And I see Rubicon are considering releasing an M3A1 half-track, even though there's already a Warlord kit available (albeit a pretty mediocre one). 

While a bit of competition between what are the only 1/56 plastic kit producers is a good thing, and pushes both to improve their game, I'd hate to see a situation where both companies keep trying to one-up each other with kits of the same vehicle.  I guess both companies want to have kits of the best-selling vehicles.  But since they're primarily aimed at the wargaming market, there's a limit to what most customers will want from a kit.  In other words, unlike the situation with the 1/35 scale military market (where companies like Dragon keep releasing increasingly more refined versions of the same vehicles), there's no real demand for the 'ultimate' Tiger kit.  There is a huge range of vehicles that people are waiting for, many of them less glamourous subjects than the Tiger and the Panther.  I suspect Warlord can be counted on the focus principally on 1944-45.  Hopefully Rubicon is thinking more laterally - the pre-1944 period seems like fertile ground.  And vehicles like trucks and armoured cars would be very welcome - they are in many ways more useful for games like Bolt Action, where (apart from Tank War) vehicles play a supporting role.

ripley

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 09:48:09 pm »
Checking the Italeri web site for new releases for 2015 ( 1/35 scale ) , I see their also planning to release a Panzer III L/M/N , Stug III , M10 / M36 and a M8 / M20 armored car combo  kits all in !/56 scale . More choice for the modeler I guess , and that's a good thing .
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 09:50:44 pm by ripley »

Cat

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 10:33:32 pm »
The most popular kits for the most popular armies sell the best, no matter how many other companies are making them.  And companies with the popular kits also attract more customers than companies with only niche items.  That has always held true in every scale, every period.  There has always been a longer line of new gamers looking for the basics than old hipsters looking for the same obscure niche.
 
So I'm happy to see a variety of choices in kit-design style so I can choose my preferred model to build.
 
Now if one company has an M10 with a 17pdr gun option, I know which one I'm buying!
(Canadians aren't that obscure, they had their own entire beach on D-Day  8) )

Pinky

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 12:46:21 am »
So I'm happy to see a variety of choices in kit-design style so I can choose my preferred model to build.
 
Now if one company has an M10 with a 17pdr gun option, I know which one I'm buying!
(Canadians aren't that obscure, they had their own entire beach on D-Day  8) )

So you're happy if everyone duplicates the same models, but you want your particular (and less obvious) vehicle to be produced.  I think you missed my point. 

airborne

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 03:56:25 am »
I think that quality will express its self in sales of any product, I buy Warlord and like their kits. However I like plastic and in particular the  difference in the Rubicon  placed against Warlord. If the item is made by just one company fine,  but you can`t expect Rubicon not to make a model just because some one else has one , and their variations are a very good sales point. Taking into account the amount of detail in terms of the duplicated items, in particular the up coming half-track with it's choice of hood/no hood, these kits are as much a model as they are a wargaming piece, and I think their place in the market is as both. 

Cheers.

Pinky

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 12:23:42 pm »
I understand that, and of course it's good to have choice.  I prefer plastic kits as well, which is why I started this topic (I'm ignoring the wide range of 1/56 scale resin models out there).  However, there's a tendency for model manufacturers to all go for the same old subjects.  The fact that (as Ripley pointed out) Italeri are going to release a later Panzer III and a StuG III is nice on one level - Rubicon's Panzer III didn't really cut it, IMO.  And I'm expecting Rubicon's T-34/85 to be superior to Warlord's in every way (I prefer Rubicon's one-piece tracks to Warlord's approach).  But on another level it just means less chance/a longer wait for other, equally important vehicles.  It took decades for Tamiya to tackle early war subjects in 1/35 scale (and I don't just mean "obscure niche" subjects).  Meanwhile, one of the most welcome developments in that scale was the advent of new companies who put out kits of vehicles had never been done in plastic, like early war British tanks, Allied armoured cars, and Japanese armour.   

Of course, there's no guarantee that Italeri will actually release the kits that Ripley mentions.  They have a history of announcing forthcoming releases that never eventuate.   

ripley

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 01:07:28 pm »
IMO more companies releasing kits is good for both the gamer and modeler . Weather the companies do well is up to the standard of their product ( most gamers I know freak out if a kits got more than 10 parts  ::) ) . Rubicon has a great start with the variety of vehicle marks to be built from each kit and their ease of assembly . Warlord / Italeri kits while not being as detailed are a great base for kit bashing and scratch builds ( I've got 13 so far and I don't even play Bolt Action  ) . I guess , like in 1/35 scale there is room for different levels of detail . I mean I like  building the latest  1000 piece modern kit out of the box , but still I love to take a 30 year old Tamiya or Italeri kit and detail it inside and out with scratch built and spare parts .  And yes it seems everyone and his brother has a Tiger I , T-34 or Stug III planned . But just like in the bigger scales , someone will take a chance on something different ( Meng's WW 1 tanks  ) . Rubicon is doing it now with their range  251 D kits and they keep us up to date on ideas they are working on ( 2 1/2 ton truck , M8 GMC , etc ) . They are also thinking of adding stowage sets and maybe crews to their kits . Even if I never buy one of their tanks , I will need crew and stowage , I've got over 45 built 1/35 scale tanks and they all have crew , some even tank riders . I just like crews in my vehicles  ;D .

johan

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 02:54:43 pm »
While it seems that some vehicles of Rubicon and Warlord/Italery may look the same it's not really the case.
The tiger of Rubicon has the early /mid and late variant, the Warlord/Italery one has zimmerit.
Their T34/76 has different turrets from the W/I one, the M3 halftrack comes with covers while the Warlord one doens't.
The German sdkfz 251 is a c-variant while the one from Rubicon will be the D-variant etc. I think there are sufficient differences to keep thing interesting enough to buy either.

Pinky

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 03:11:46 pm »
I just like crews in my vehicles  ;D .

Yeah, me too.  I'm hoping Rubicon can start providing crew figures at some point.  In the meantime, I'm mixing Tamiya and Warlord bits to make commanders (yes I know he should have headphones):

sandsmodels

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 05:25:24 pm »
competition will always occur and sometimes it is the models that you can easily get that you buy.
making t34's for the Russians is a good idea and if you have a few to choose from then that does give you more variety if they look similar then does it matter, sadly except for the turrets the t34's look the same!
the italeri/warlord m4 goes well with the rubicon one but they are different types so again same sort of tank but different.
also the 17pdr m10 would be great but more variety does allow those after market resin manufacturers to make even more variants.
hopefully more kits more gamers and collectors and better models as well.

ripley

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 10:02:02 pm »
Great looking Panther , Pinky . I see you added the pistol port , nice move .  For head phones I use the  plastic nut and bolt set from Meng ( SPS 007 - the 1.4 mm ones ) . Just cut off the one that looks the right size for your figure , add green stuff or plastic strip  head band and paint .

airborne

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Re: Duplication (or: why competition isn't always a good thing)
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 04:28:53 am »
That's a real good commander Pinky, when you say Tamiya are they 1/48 figures you use with Warlord parts.I use wargames factory WW 2 german infantry even using the tin helmet at times. Also perry mins.
Cheers