Rubicon Models

Rubicon Models => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Rubicon Models on May 22, 2016, 01:41:33 AM

Title: German AA/AT Guns - The LONG Haul... 171215
Post by: Rubicon Models on May 22, 2016, 01:41:33 AM
With the SdKfz 250/251 3D drawing phase of the project coming to a close, we are wrapping up
the bits and pieces from these projects and come up with standalone versions of these AT guns!

These guns will probably come in a single sprue, and will include crews.  Objective of this new
offering is to attract customers to replace their not so up-to-standard white metal artillery with
our all plastic highly detailed alternatives; and to give customers choices when they are starting
a new army.

The first one is the PaK 36...
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%203D-Drawing%20160509-3_zps1xtnd8h7.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%203D-Drawing%20160509-2_zpsshq6th3v.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%203D-Drawing%20160509-1_zpsbokf3bzr.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Rubicon Models on May 22, 2016, 01:42:47 AM
...followed by the PaK 40!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40-160522-1_zpsfr2xmtaz.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40-160522-2_zpsoezlii9v.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40-160522-3_zpsqixmeuos.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40-160522-4_zpsosjkyf7v.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40-160522-5_zpshptjseuc.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: ripley on May 22, 2016, 03:49:30 AM
These look really good  .Hope the crews are in good action poses .  IRC the 75mm Pak 40  only had wooden boxes  and the metal tubes for ammo . That metal box pictured  was only used with the 50mm Pak 38  . You can see them strapped on SdKfz 234/2  Puma fenders in Normandy era pictures . An honest mistake , in fact Tamiya still include one in their model kit .( Its from the mid 70s and they don't want to retool it  ::) )
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on May 22, 2016, 04:26:36 AM
Nice.

I note the lower shield is raised on the 75mm towed version, should the 37mm tow also have the lower shield raised?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: ripley on May 22, 2016, 04:49:50 AM
The lower shield on the 37mm was raised as well when it was towed , should be an easy fix with a knife  . The tricky part will be cutting the upper part of the gun shield to fold down the  3 flaps . ( have done that with the Tamiya 1/35 scale Pak 36 ) . Sometimes I think I should just build kits straight out of the box , no kit bashing  ...  :o
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Pinky on May 22, 2016, 10:10:05 AM
The Pak 40 looks really good.  I didn't know about the ammo box point Ripley mentioned.  I'd suggest you put out the Pak 40 first - it will be much more useful.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Rubicon Models on May 22, 2016, 11:58:05 AM
I note the lower shield is raised on the 75mm towed version, should the 37mm tow also have the lower shield raised?

You have keen eyes!  Those are the details we are aiming for... so for the PaK36, yes!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Seret on May 22, 2016, 02:15:07 PM
How many crew per gun?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on May 22, 2016, 03:06:47 PM
I note the lower shield is raised on the 75mm towed version, should the 37mm tow also have the lower shield raised?

You have keen eyes!  Those are the details we are aiming for... so for the PaK36, yes!
;)

Cool.

As is, it would function a bit like a road grader ^____^.

Having the rest of the shield fold prototypically is not so much an issue for me and would make it more complex to mould and build.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: stevepalffy on May 22, 2016, 05:15:22 PM
Cool !

88 and Sdkfz 7 next ?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: johan on May 22, 2016, 06:21:23 PM
Cool !

88 and Sdkfz 7 next ?

Steve, I don't think these will come soon. the 37mm and 75mm gun projects are being considered because a large part of the gun is/will be available anyway through the 250/251 projects, this means just the wheels and trails would have to be made. This is not so for the 88mm or sdkfz 7. (Though I would like to see these as well)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Yaquir on May 22, 2016, 07:24:47 PM
realy, realy good!
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160522
Post by: Rubicon Models on May 27, 2016, 06:10:30 PM
The core design team will be away to the UK Games Expo in Birmingham for a week
starting from coming Monday.  So no more updates until we are back!  Just leave
some eye candy here...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%20160526-1_zpsczjcb7lk.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%20160526-2_zpsxcgawhyo.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%20160526-4_zpst7ukzwo4.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%20160526-3_zpsti83iq1f.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK36%20160526-5_zpss9q7zb7u.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160623
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 23, 2016, 11:43:40 AM
3D Prototype for the PaK 40 is now here!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-01_zpsy7d1pw4h.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-02_zps62aydxtw.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-03_zpslf69phrd.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-04_zpsfthghqfi.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-05_zpsz9ibjrhy.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-06_zpsue61rsxx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-07_zpsp7prfee9.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK40%20160623-08_zpslh8qpxue.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160623
Post by: Pinky on June 23, 2016, 02:27:31 PM
Looks great to me.  I like the way you've suggested the double layered gunshield, and the stowed version of the baseplate. 

I'm much more interested in this than the Pak 36, and I think it will be very popular.  Your caption mentions "3 crews" - does this mean 3 different full crews or 3 figures?  I'd assume the latter, since a set of mid-war figures would pretty much cover things.  However, it would be nice to have a crew in the same sort of gear as Warlord's plastic Grenadiers.  They are very popular.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160623
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on June 23, 2016, 04:09:42 PM
Excellent.

I cannot wait to see the crew.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 24, 2016, 07:01:50 PM
To fill the "gap" between our PaK36 and PaK40 projects...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-01_zps4xmrx3d0.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-02_zps0wqayiqc.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-03_zpsoviquzms.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-04_zpsg2l6c9in.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-05_zpswfegvcgh.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK97-38%20160624-06_zpsxerb61v8.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on June 24, 2016, 07:52:54 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Pinky on June 25, 2016, 02:12:16 PM
Very cool.  The Pak 38 will also be very useful.  I hope this kit wI'll come with a DAK crew, as the Pak 38 was an important weapon in the desert war.

The ammo for the Pak 97/38 seems to have been supplied in wooden crates, not pressed metal boxes.  As Ripley pointed out before, it was the Pak 38's ammo which came in metal boxes.  So you'd need to supply both types.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 26, 2016, 04:28:03 PM
One question, guys: Do PaK have camo?

Saw some with in museum pictures, how about in the field?
I know some have camo when they are mounted on vehicles...
how about when used standalone??

;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: stevepalffy on June 26, 2016, 05:44:22 PM
Yes lots of photos of camo applied to PAK....
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: H0ffmn on June 26, 2016, 11:06:35 PM
I hope that you will include the more solid pressed steel wheel on your upcoming Pak 38 /Pak 97/38 anti tank gun kit.From pictures, it seems to be more common than the open spoked wheel on the example that you have
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Pinky on June 26, 2016, 11:15:19 PM
Anti-tank guns were painted the same colours as vehicles.  Up to the switchover to dark yellow in early 1943, all of these guns would have been painted dark grey (the Pak 36 would have had a red-brown camo pattern in the intial year or so of the war).  They were often whitewashed in winter - usually very roughly.  Otherwise, they were camouflaged with foliage or even mud (common in the early states of the desert war).  Guns in service with the DAK were eventually painted brown yellow, although not always uniformly (a rough spray over the dark grey wasn't unusual).

With the change to dark yellow, all equipment was repainted, but it took time.  Crews often applied camo patterns to Pak guns - after all, camouflage was probably even more vital for an anti-tank gun than it was for a vehicle.  As a rule, they tended to be quite basic schemes (often just a quick sprayed pattern of either green or red-brown), but you do see some more elaborate 3-colour schemes.  Guns serving in Panzer divisions seem to have been more likely to be properly camouflaged than guns serving in infantry divisions.  If the gun was towed by a half-track then it tended to be camouflaged the same way.

I found this (genuine) colour photo of some German heavy artillery captured in Tunisia.  It gives an idea of the kind of slapdash application of camo that was pretty common on towed guns (and the actual colours).
(https://s32.postimg.org/7xc860dr5/German_artillery.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7xc860dr5/)

Here is a photo of a Pak 38 with a more elegantly applied camo pattern.
(https://s31.postimg.org/whj2806hz/Pak_38.gif) (https://postimg.org/image/whj2806hz/)

And here is a Pak 40 with another fairly typical camo pattern.
(https://s31.postimg.org/ax3ppl6xz/Pak_40.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ax3ppl6xz/)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Pinky on June 26, 2016, 11:17:32 PM
I hope that you will include the more solid pressed steel wheel on your upcoming Pak 38 /Pak 97/38 anti tank gun kit.From pictures, it seems to be more common than the open spoked wheel on the example that you have

Agreed.  Knowing Rubicon, they'll provide both!

Also, I just realised that the Pak 38 had an additional wheel that was attached to the trails to make it easier to move the gun.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 27, 2016, 11:57:40 AM
Also, I just realised that the Pak 38 had an additional wheel that was attached to the trails to make it easier to move the gun.

Yes, there is an extra wheel; but we are omitting it intentionally due to technical issues; knowing not too many will model it as being towed.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160624
Post by: ripley on June 28, 2016, 04:30:42 AM
Actually the third wheel was mounted on the spade end of the trail and used by crews to move the gun manually . It was dismounted and bolted to the trail when the gun was towed by a vehicle
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160630
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 30, 2016, 09:04:02 PM
With the PaK 97/38 done, here is the remaining PaK 38 3D drawings...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20eDrawing%20160630-1_zpsl3cwxq0x.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20eDrawing%20160630-2_zpsxok215b5.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20eDrawing%20160630-3_zpszf7wykyy.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20eDrawing%20160630-4_zpsabnllqke.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20eDrawing%20160630-5_zpsikkv0xiq.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - A spin-off from our SdKfz 250/251 Project - 160630
Post by: stevepalffy on June 30, 2016, 10:40:08 PM
Looking good
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: Rubicon Models on July 30, 2016, 08:03:42 PM
Here is the preliminary test sculpts for the PaK 36!

Decided to do 5 crew instead of just 3 to suit different needs
- gaming or modelling or both!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK%2036%20Crew%203D%20Sculpt%20160730-01_zpsw2392nws.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK%2036%20Crew%203D%20Sculpt%20160730-02_zpsqnojkpaq.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/FB%20PaK%2036%20Crew%203D%20Sculpt%20160730-03_zpsbebmbw6n.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: airborne on July 31, 2016, 02:55:33 AM
You people have a real talent in making great models, and making me spend more money. I`m certain I said I would just go the occasional  axis item. Mainly buying just U.S.A. joke the first I brought was your Tiger. These are so brilliant for models or wargame.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: Rubicon Models on July 31, 2016, 11:41:35 AM
Team work plays an important role to make great products!  When we first
started almost two years ago, it was 5 people; and over this period, we have
expanded the team to 9 (mostly sculptors).  With the studio expansion later
this month, hopefully we will have a dozen to keep up with all the projects
on hand.

Unlike most manufacturers, we tend to be very open about our work.  We
wanted customers to share our experience, and by going through the design
process - from concept to prototype to final product - you can all feel the
love we had put into each product! 

And with your comments and feedback, we are able to pick up things and
details that we had missed or screwed up.  Something we really cherished
and appreciated.

We think 1/56 scales is a perfect scale for both wargaming and modelling.
Even though we are (almost) the only one out there that actively promoting
plastic vehicles in this scale, we do hope other players will join in to make
market expand faster!


Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: Pinky on July 31, 2016, 12:47:45 PM
That's a good group of figures.  Natural poses and I like that they're not wearing too much gear.  If I was being super picky, I'd say their uniforms look a bit loose-fitting for early war Germans (although I realise they're deliberately 'chunky), and perhaps they should be crouching more, to reflect this gun's very short range...
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: Yaquir on August 05, 2016, 06:27:56 PM
Very good group! And i also think the uniforms looks a bit loose-fitting; looks more like american then german fit-style  ;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Crew Sculpts 160730
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on August 05, 2016, 08:39:45 PM
One of the kneeling figures (hand on leg, hand on floor) does seem to have prominent piping on his sleeves.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: Rubicon Models on September 05, 2016, 08:27:13 PM
When we design our PaK gun crew, we pay special attention so that
customers will have their choice with or without figure basing for
gaming or diorama use! We really care!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/Gun%20Crew%20160905-1_zpswjuqeppq.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: ripley on September 05, 2016, 09:29:24 PM
Nice variety of figures / poses .  Amazing how  a different set of arms can change the look of a figure . Lots of potential for uses as troops other than Artillery . Will these be a separate blister pack or just come with the gun kit ?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on September 10, 2016, 07:08:20 PM
They look good.

Now we need someone to supply a suitable base for the AT guns, "triangular" with curved rather than angular corners. The problem is that all the different guns will have different lengths and widths.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: elias.tibbs on September 10, 2016, 09:15:10 PM
I like oval bases for artillery.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: MassRager on September 11, 2016, 05:36:11 PM
I like oval bases for artillery.

same, the Rendra ones work well for boltaction Ive found
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: Ballardian on September 11, 2016, 08:20:05 PM
Excellent looking gun & crew, always nice to be able to replace fragile & chip-prone pewter. I agree that oval bases are currently the best choice for basing guns but ultravanillasmurf's suggestion of cake wedge shaped bases is a good one.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: elias.tibbs on September 11, 2016, 10:55:34 PM
I like oval bases for artillery.

same, the Rendra ones work well for boltaction Ive found

Same, although I use 60mm round bases for the smaller ones and the renedra one wasn't big enough for my long Tom!
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: Pinky on September 12, 2016, 10:21:40 AM
Just wanted to join with everyone else who likes these.  The figures look better than the Pak 36 crew.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 160905
Post by: Klank on November 15, 2016, 11:47:18 AM
Nice set of light and medium AT guns for sure. I'll be getting them for my Germans when they come out.

How abut a little discussion on some heavy AT guns for down the road like the 88mm Pak 43/41?

(https://s13.postimg.org/g3dssk283/PAK43gun31_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g3dssk283/)

(https://s17.postimg.org/z5h0ara57/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101_I_698_0038_07_Russland_8.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z5h0ara57/)

And then there's the king daddy of them all... the 12.8 cm PaK 44 there were two versions made n limited numbers.

(https://s15.postimg.org/e920c9u1j/Krupp_K_44_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e920c9u1j/)

(https://s21.postimg.org/67hq2qioz/kanone44.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/67hq2qioz/)

I don't know about the rest of you folks but I would most defiantly get this model in 1/56 if only to have it.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 161126
Post by: Rubicon Models on November 26, 2016, 09:35:24 AM
AT gun crew prototype painted. There will be 3 sets of gun crew available
the our upcoming plastic PaK 36/38/40 AT guns.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/Gun%20Crew%20Painted%20161125-1_zpsvie0ltrk.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/Gun%20Crew%20Painted%20161125-2_zpsrrskoqtn.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/Gun%20Crew%20Painted%20161125-3_zpszunf8co9.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/Gun%20Crew%20Painted%20161125-4_zps3vsewznu.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 161126
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on November 26, 2016, 04:18:49 PM
Very good.

My only comment is the position of the binoculars,  I do not have a pair to hand but without a strap the position looks a bit awkward to hold for any length of time.

Similar open ammunition boxes for the tank guns would be nice for diorama (rather than stowage) sets.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 161126
Post by: Pinky on November 26, 2016, 08:22:31 PM
That's a pretty common position for binoculars on figures.  I agree it would be hard to maintain, but I think the idea is that he has just lowered them in order to gesture dramatically towards the enemy. 

I like the uncluttered look of the crew; the poses seem sensible (although anti-tank crews crouched rather than stood, as a rule) and the detail seems sharp.  Only the heads look a bit rough.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - Gun Crew 161126
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on November 26, 2016, 10:21:12 PM
What would be nice is some pictures viewing the model from a more horizontal angle.

As you say crews would be crouching rather than standing.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 12, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
PaK 36 TS1 Plastic finally arrived...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-01_zpseqsmczzz.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-02_zps58to7omx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-04_zpso57n2wtp.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-05_zpspjrupdhb.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-03_zpsnb97ddr0.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-06_zpsz2xyn3kg.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Plastic%20161208-07_zpsh4vxpdxa.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 12, 2016, 05:08:02 PM
Excellent.

Are there only the ammo boxes for vehicle interiors (blocks of  five or six)? I could not see any individual ones (which I would assume would be more likely for the field guns.

So what would be a common tow for this AT gun?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 12, 2016, 05:44:30 PM
Are there only the ammo boxes for vehicle interiors (blocks of  five or six)? I could not see any individual ones (which I would assume would be more likely for the field guns.

From research, the ammo boxes are the same.  Did not have individual ones because they are too small as a single part.


So what would be a common tow for this AT gun?

Any halftracks and trucks.  We might even have some new trucks coming... ;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 12, 2016, 06:53:01 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: ripley on December 12, 2016, 10:13:03 PM
Looks really good . You could separate the row of ammo boxes with a hobby razor saw ( 1-2 mm thick blade , 32-64 teeth per inch ) if you wanted to show a crew on the ground in action . That's what I'm going to do  :D
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Plastic 161212
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 12, 2016, 11:05:37 PM
Looks really good . You could separate the row of ammo boxes with a hobby razor saw ( 1-2 mm thick blade , 32-64 teeth per inch ) if you wanted to show a crew on the ground in action . That's what I'm going to do  :D

That is a good idea.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Primed 161217
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 17, 2016, 04:51:32 PM
A detail look at what the PaK 36 plastic kit will be like!
No release date yet as we are still working on the additional gun crew.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Primed%20161216-02_zpsznay5os5.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Primed%20161216-01_zpswdldf8wk.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Primed%20161216-03_zpsekfn9dkp.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Primed%20161216-04_zpswcvzw8d7.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Primed 161217
Post by: Yaquir on December 17, 2016, 06:09:57 PM
looks excellent!
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 TS1 Primed 161217
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 23, 2016, 04:59:14 PM
Very nice.

I guess the vehicle mount gun is usable for the Universal carriers based self propelled gun.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Painted Crew 161231
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 31, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
PaK 36 AT gun crew painted - We have two sets of figures available.
One set for 25mm based poses and the other for without bases.
Figures in both sets can be interchanged for variety too!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-01_zps8ammbil2.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-02_zpsqfgyj7nd.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-03_zpsbhkk8kvx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-04_zpsklivspk1.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-05_zpse2ifsugv.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-06_zpsfpvz83m4.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-09_zps30cysll2.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-08_zpsfqoxemaa.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-07_zpsmwirtbvc.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2036%20TS1%20Painted%20161223-10_zpshpvvsg45.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Painted Crew 161231
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 31, 2016, 04:40:57 PM
They look good.

The labelling is a bit odd, a number of the pictures say 25mm bases, they all appear to be on big bases unless you have branched out to 6mm scale and the gun is on a 25mm base.

Saying that Forge World once did 6mm scale multipart wombles.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Painted Crew 161231
Post by: ripley on December 31, 2016, 10:04:59 PM
Great looking figures , Hopefully available as a separate pack as they will convert nicely to regular Infantry by adding BA bits from the parts box .  Are you going to supply them with canteens , bread bags , ammo pouches , etc , or just leave them " naked " of personal gear ?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Painted Crew 161231
Post by: elias.tibbs on January 01, 2017, 01:31:53 AM
They look good.

The labelling is a bit odd, a number of the pictures say 25mm bases, they all appear to be on big bases unless you have branched out to 6mm scale and the gun is on a 25mm base.

Saying that Forge World once did 6mm scale multipart wombles.

I think they mean the crew would fit on a 25mm base if needed.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 36 Painted Crew 161231
Post by: Captain Blood on January 03, 2017, 02:22:54 AM
The gun looks superb.

The figures, being honest, do not look quite right. The arms look too long, and the uniforms look too baggy - I think the creases are too over-exaggerated, making these figures look like they are wearing great big, loose sack type clothing. Sorry to be critical. I admire your ambition, but I think making good looking miniatures using digital sculpting is a lot more difficult than making good looking hardware, equipment and vehicles... I'm sure the quality of figure sculpting will improve with future releases. My advice would be - cut back on the amount of creasing in the sleeves in particular. By quite a lot.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 09, 2017, 01:46:00 PM
First test shot plastic for the PaK 38 and PaK 40 finally arrived!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Plastic%20170207-1_zpsqjsjk4na.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Plastic%20170207-1_zpsiw2cwsm9.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Pinky on February 09, 2017, 03:42:19 PM
Excellent!

It's great that you've included multiple ammo boxes.  A lot of kits of guns only have one.

I assume you didn't decide to include the wheel on the carriage of the Pak 38?  There was a discussion about it a while back. 
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Yaquir on February 09, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
Very good. Move on!  :)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 09, 2017, 05:40:17 PM
I assume you didn't decide to include the wheel on the carriage of the Pak 38?  There was a discussion about it a while back.

We have looked at the extra wheel on the carriage and found it quite complicated to design while making it look realistic, so we dropped it.

The wheel needed extra pieces to "lock" the carriage while in transport.  We see the chance people using this pose is minimum.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 09, 2017, 05:41:33 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Swamprat33 on February 09, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
Very nice.
When can we expect to see these in the shops????

Tim
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Pinky on February 09, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
The wheel needed extra pieces to "lock" the carriage while in transport.  We see the chance people using this pose is minimum.

Ripley pointed out that the wheel was used to manoeuvre the gun when in action, not for when it's in transport mode.  But never mind - I guess it's fairly easy to add.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 09, 2017, 11:50:45 PM
Ripley pointed out that the wheel was used to manoeuvre the gun when in action, not for when it's in transport mode.  But never mind - I guess it's fairly easy to add.

We were saying the part is difficult to design without duplicating additional (extra) trails and parts to make it look realistic.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Pinky on February 10, 2017, 12:01:40 AM
I don't think many will notice its absence.  The guns look really good - looking forward to these two.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 & 40 TS1 Plastic 170209
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 10, 2017, 12:39:18 AM
The mid-war crews are almost done, now still waiting for the late-war version!  Will take a while before they are ready on the release list.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 12, 2017, 02:38:21 PM
Here is the PaK 40 TS1 plastic painted:

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-00_zpsv4hk0rp8.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-01_zpsiyem8zru.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-04_zpsofhknt8a.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-02_zpsdot857ox.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-03_zpsevmtd6vr.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-05_zpsff5wyp6x.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-06_zpscqpwriya.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-07_zpscdqwdxwb.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20TS1%20Painted%20170211-08_zpsamdpxiul.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: Pinky on February 12, 2017, 03:08:17 PM
It looks very nice.  Great to see another important piece of equipment finally available in plastic. 

The slot in the loading tray below the breech block should be much wider and deeper - the loading tray was just a folded piece of metal.  There was also usually a long box attached to the back of the shield (for storing the sight, I think).  But these are very minor points, and easily dealt with by anyone who cares.

Apparently the barrel was retracted when in travel mode.  I'm guessing it's possible to position the barrel in that way.  As you mentioned before, it's normally going to be built in the 'in action' configuration.

(https://s29.postimg.org/lwuhbar6r/IMG_0067.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lwuhbar6r/)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 12, 2017, 03:58:32 PM
True!  We had simplified the loading tray for mould making (the plastic can't be too thin and had to be at an angle).  Other than that, should be reasonably close.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 12, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
Really good.

What is the usual tractor for one of these, a 251?

Echoing Pinky, it is great to see  important artillery in plastic.

<Subliminal_chanting text="25 pounder" repeat="infinity" />
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 12, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
What is the usual tractor for one of these, a 251?

Official approved vehicles to tow a PaK 40 included SdKfz 11, 3-ton truck (Opel Blitz, Mercedes L3000, etc), SdKfz 251, RSO, and Maultier.

From 1942 to mid-43, an SdKfz 11 or a 3-ton truck would be most common, after that an RSO or Maultier or 3-ton truck would be most common.  There are many photos of PaK 40's being towed by SdKfz 10 - this is due to the fact that PaK 40 was replacing the PaK 38 in many existing units; they got new guns but no prime movers. The PaK 40 is 1/2 ton heavier than the SdKfz "official rated" towing capacity, but photographic evidence (and "use what you have" in reality) suggested otherwise.  There are also photos of PaK 40's being towed by Steyr 1500, which is also a bit light of a vehicle for the job.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 12, 2017, 06:41:14 PM
Thanks.

Any chance of a box containing the gun, the crew and a towing vehicle?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 TS1 Painted 170212
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 13, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
Any chance of a box containing the gun, the crew and a towing vehicle?

We are only looking at gun with crew for the moment because of logistic issues.  We might be able to create some sort of bundle later for our channel partners.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 13, 2017, 12:59:12 PM
This post is going to be extremely graphics heavy... total of 23 images covering both PaK 38 and PaK 97/38...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-01_zpseweyx1nu.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-02_zpsb9d4yaqv.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-03_zpsa6ehsc0o.jpg)

](http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-04_zpshj72f00d.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-05_zpsr8mbehkj.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-06_zpsxcmzjdv2.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-07_zps1v0vpexc.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-08_zpsrxot1ccg.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-09_zpsbhnc3sr6.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-10_zps32dqergo.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-11_zps0nnzt3kx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-12_zpsiur4olzg.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-13_zpsvjflmucp.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-14_zpsu14iem8g.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-15_zpswfunomrm.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-16_zpsu6obz1kl.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-17_zps6uqvfq0h.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-18_zpslrszrrqs.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-19_zpslxmf2wa4.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-20_zpsptumgzel.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-21_zpse47ffbaq.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-22_zps9ughny6r.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2038%20TS1%20Painted%20170203-23_zpsjjtmdoe4.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Pinky on February 13, 2017, 02:57:38 PM
I really like this one.  I think it's my favourite of the new guns you're doing - partly because there have been a lot of kits of the other 2 guns in various scale, but this one is much less common.  This one also seems a bit more detailed than the Pak 40.  Very nice.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 13, 2017, 03:00:03 PM
This one also seems a bit more detailed than the Pak 40.  Very nice.

This is also my favorite one too!  Much more rich in details...
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Yaquir on February 13, 2017, 04:57:43 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 13, 2017, 06:41:21 PM
Looks very good.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Pinky on February 14, 2017, 09:41:38 AM
Does the Pak 38 come with the metal ammunition boxes as well?
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 14, 2017, 12:09:48 PM
Does the Pak 38 come with the metal ammunition boxes as well?

Yes, it does.  The ammo box and crew in the photoshoot was a standin.  They are not done yet...
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 38 TS1 Painted 17023
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 02:58:22 AM
So these are not the final gun crew figures?

The guns themselves look absolutely brilliant.

Sorry to be boring, because I know I made the same point before, but the crew I'm afraid, still look like they are wearing baggy overalls or pyjamas, rather than WW2 German uniforms. Too 'full' and too much overdone creasing.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 Gun Crew TS1 170306
Post by: Rubicon Models on March 06, 2017, 03:54:23 PM
Just received from factory... PaK 40 late war gun crew (TS1 plastic).
Still have moulding issues, but is a good start!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20Crew%20TS1%20Primed%20170306-1_zpssdxd8atb.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 Gun Crew TS1 170306
Post by: ripley on March 06, 2017, 10:33:29 PM
These guys look good , love the cammo smocks . Really would like to see figure  sets like this available without the guns . Lots of potential for conversion to regular infantry ( or who know what  ::) ) for us modellers . I can see guys that already have other companies metal / resin guns using these as well to expand their crews
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 Gun Crew TS1 170306
Post by: Rubicon Models on March 07, 2017, 12:09:45 AM
Test assembled and painted the PaK 40 crew by our in-house painter for details and possible errors...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20Crew%20TS1%20Painted%20170306-1_zpsds7nqqs5.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/PaK%2040%20Crew%20TS1%20Painted%20170306-2_zpsloo4z0cw.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 Gun Crew TS1 170306
Post by: Rubicon Models on March 07, 2017, 12:13:19 AM
Really would like to see figure sets like this available without the guns. Lots of potential for conversion to regular infantry (or who know what ::)) for us modellers.

Don't think these will be packaged without the gun initially.  Is not feasible economically in terms of repackaging these figures for individual sales.
Title: Re: German AT Guns - PaK 40 Gun Crew TS1 170306
Post by: ripley on March 07, 2017, 09:04:11 AM
Fair enough . I will have to get at least two guns then ( maybe 3 ) . One in action ,and one being towed , leaving me a crew to kit bash  :)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170328
Post by: Rubicon Models on March 28, 2017, 02:55:04 PM
"Feindliches Flugzeug eingehend..." The 2cm FlaK 38 was not only the primary
German light anti-aircraft gun, but by far the most numerously produced German
artillery piece throughout the war.

Other than as a standalone piece with crew in firing or on tow stance, possible
scenario include being mounted on a SdKfz 7/1, or on a Bltiz or Maulter...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170328-1_zpsqzfxtfvt.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170328-2_zpsuzoaqtgh.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170328
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 28, 2017, 03:04:38 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170328
Post by: Pinky on March 28, 2017, 04:19:40 PM
Looks very good.  But could we have some non-German field weapons before this?
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170328
Post by: Yaquir on March 29, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
Looks very good.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170413
Post by: Rubicon Models on April 13, 2017, 08:22:03 PM
More work done on the FlaK 38.  Now with the mobile carriage.  While being transported the FlaK shields are folded sideways with the gunner seats removed.  In some instances, the shields are simply removed.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170413-2_zps1zb4i1cs.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170413-1_zps6shy4fi4.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170413
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on April 13, 2017, 11:42:42 PM
Going to need lots of ammo boxes.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More 2cm FlaK 38 3D Drawings 170413
Post by: ripley on April 14, 2017, 01:43:50 AM
Might be an idea for a accessory set - Ammo boxes  . rubicon  could do a German set , clips and 2 clip boxes for the 20mm flak , as well as metal and wood boxes for the 50mm pak , wood boxes and metal tubes for the 75mm pak , and a variety of wood boxes for the long barrel kwk 75mm of the Panther  and the Tiger's 88 . A set of 6 pounder  metal boxes as well wooden boxes for the US 75mm , and wood boxes for the Russian 76 , 85 , 122 mm  might work as a Allies set .  Could also just make them in resin and sell them in 10 piece bubble packs , they do that a lot in 1/35 scale
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: Rubicon Models on May 05, 2017, 04:27:22 PM
This is the prototype for our version of the quad-autocannon... first shown at Salute 2017!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-01_zpslmmsbozw.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-02_zpshf13vetf.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-03_zpshlvbfybc.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-04_zpssc8ynh1e.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-05_zps0e8nbzac.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: ripley on May 05, 2017, 08:29:41 PM
Another fantastic gun kit in the works , YAY !!!
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: Ballardian on May 05, 2017, 10:14:26 PM
That is very nice, way better than any of the pewter ones out there - I see an SdKfz 7/1 in my future...
 That said, will the 3.7cm flak 36/37/43 get the same treatment ? Playing late war I'd particularly favour the last of those.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: Swamprat33 on May 06, 2017, 12:21:25 AM
Hi, Can you please make the gun barels slightly overscale to be less fragile for gaming.
These normally are the first things to break and can be a pain to repair.

Overall, this looks to be another superb offering and a world apart from others on the market.

Tim
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: Pinky on May 06, 2017, 09:54:24 AM
Hi, Can you please make the gun barels slightly overscale to be less fragile for gaming.
These normally are the first things to break and can be a pain to repair.

I second this.  Or provide an optional set of overscale barrels.  These are simply too fragile for wargaming.  If they are true to scale, they will be even thinner than the 1/48 scale Tamiya Flakvierling barrels, which are very fine.

And please start on some Allied artillery, like the 2-pdr and 6-pdr/57mm.  The Germans have had plenty of love now...
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: tyroflyer on May 06, 2017, 10:17:27 AM
Perhaps an optional set of barrels is the way to go. I wouldn't like to see such a nice model messed up with very obviously oversize barrels. I don't know whether there are any other solutions to minimising damage (apart from leaving it in a glass case!).
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on May 06, 2017, 03:53:25 PM
I am not sure if this is technically feasible, but:

Is it possible to supply turned (not cast) metal barrels as an option? I understand this would require some special design work as there would have to be sufficient space to provide a suitable socket within the body of the gun and working with a new medium and the supplier issues that would entail.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: Ballardian on May 06, 2017, 08:21:22 PM
 I agree that in-scale barrels that are that small are inherently fragile, though I don't knonw how practical the inclusion of barrels in other materials is - perhap a blister of replacement barrels would be possible. I've tended to replace the barrels on any I've previously made with readily available brass or aluminium rod or tube, (art shops tend to carry them, as do Amazon & Ebay) which are far more robust at scale (or near scale) size.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: ripley on May 06, 2017, 08:56:46 PM
A blister pack of metal / wire barrels and resin flash guards would probably work . But it depends how the  gun kit is made . Do the barrels fit together at the position by the gun shield or is each  gun -  one full piece . Lots of fun trying to drill out the end of 4 guns to add metal barrels . I can see a disaster waiting to happen . Of course Rubicon would end up selling more gun kits probably  ::)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Prototype 170505
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on May 07, 2017, 02:24:36 PM
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/Quad%202cm%20FlaK%2038%20170505-05_zps0e8nbzac.jpg)
My (non technical) thought was to have the body of each gun in two parts with a hollow (when assembled forming a socket) that takes a length of the turned/ rod barrel to provide strength to the exposed part of the barrel. Scale plastic barrels would just need a stub piece for assembly.


It might be possible to make the plastic barrels a friction fit, making replacement easier.

Ripley makes a good point about the flash guards, an alternative would be to provide the socket (so no need to drill the body of the gun) and flashguards in plastic as spares on the sprue.

No idea of the feasibility, but the Crusader kit had a wire brush guard option, a first for this scale.

Technical issues are preventing me from posting a diagram.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: Rubicon Models on June 22, 2017, 11:21:49 PM
This is the latest batch of eDrawings for the FlaK 38...
now being mounted on an Opel Maultier!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170622-1_zpscvwww0n7.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170622-2_zpsvrddaal8.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/2cm%20FlaK%2038%20170622-3_zpssvasffc7.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on June 23, 2017, 02:12:15 AM
Nice.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: jdg on July 07, 2017, 01:41:53 PM
The Maultier never carried the Flakfierling 38 it was to heavy for the Maultier.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: Swamprat33 on July 07, 2017, 04:45:42 PM
It does look good but agree it is not correct.
For this reason, i used the single 20mm mount on the back of my Opel Blitz.

Tim
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: Rubicon Models on July 07, 2017, 05:47:32 PM
The Maultier never carried the Flakfierling 38 it was to heavy for the Maultier.

That's very true... sorry about the confusion.  But it did mounted on an Opel Blitz...

;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: Pinky on July 10, 2017, 06:53:00 AM
We discussed this before.  It seems fairly certain that the Flakvierling was not mounted on the basic Opel Blitz, as it was too heavy.  The only photos purporting to show this combination (in Afrika Korps service) are apparently of a 4 1/2 ton truck, not an Opel. The Flakvierling doesn't seem to have been mounted on the Maultier either - all the photos show the single barrel version.  Of course, anything is possible given the Germans' need to improvise.  But it would be a very rare, non-standard vehicle.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: johan on July 10, 2017, 07:44:00 AM
If Rubicon also produces the 2 cm Flak 30 or the 3.7 cm Flak, then we can make the opel Blitz and maultier with the 2 cm and the 7/2 with the 3.7 cm.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - More eDrawings 170622
Post by: jdg on July 13, 2017, 03:27:35 AM
" Of course, anything is possible given the Germans' need to improvise."

Not really the Germans were limited by reality just like everybody else. The track system added to the Opel Blitz to make the Maultier was less robust that the original wheels which meat the Maultier couldn't carry as umch weight as the Blitz.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - 2cm FlaK 38 Gun Crew Sculpt 170824
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 24, 2017, 06:28:31 PM
Finally, some preliminary gun crew for the 2cm FlaK 38 done!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%2020mm%20Crew%20170824-01_zps7atshhx4.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%2020mm%20Crew%20170824-02_zpscnj3nqby.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%2020mm%20Crew%20170824-03_zps3k2yby09.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%2020mm%20Crew%20170824-04_zpspxab5usa.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 SdAh52 Trailer 171011
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 11, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
More work is done on the Flakvierling 38 project.


This is the SdAh 52 trailer with two build options: (1) Carriage Trailer for transporting the FlaK 38 or as an (2) Ammunition Trailer when the FlaK 38 was mounted on vehicles.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Cart%20171011-1_zpsckzzxdlx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Cart%20171011-2_zpsygrqmaoi.jpg)

Enjoy!
 ;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 SdAh52 Trailer 171011
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 11, 2017, 05:03:09 PM
Looks good.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 SdAh52 Trailer 171011
Post by: ripley on October 11, 2017, 08:13:58 PM
Very nice
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 12, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
Took us a while to turn these figures into 3D prints based on our digital sculpts.
The result is very good.  Everything fits perfectly the first time!

The Flakvierling 38 will come with four German Heer crew – each with separate
figure heads.  We’ve also included the towing trailer as it would be rare to see a
Flakvierling without its means of transport.

The Flakvierling was also to be seen without the protective shields and we’ve
produced the model so you can leave these off if you so desire.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Gun%20Crew%20171011-1_zps95ohyzk1.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Gun%20Crew%20171011-2_zpsstswjmla.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Gun%20Crew%20171011-3_zpstcqbwaxv.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/FlaK%20Gun%20Crew%20171011-4_zps55kc3zz3.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: Pinky on October 12, 2017, 02:48:32 PM
The figures seem to be significantly better than the previous ones.  There is real depth to the details like the helmets and clothing.  The switch to a lighter coloured plastic will also help a lot. 
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 12, 2017, 03:03:20 PM
The figures seem to be significantly better than the previous ones.  There is real depth to the details like the helmets and clothing.  The switch to a lighter coloured plastic will also help a lot.

We are using the same figure template since day 1 of digital sculpting.  Nothing had changed... except a much better photo booth setup!  :D
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: H0ffmn on October 12, 2017, 07:59:55 PM
Your figures look very good. The only problem that I see is your figure's tunic pockets. There was never a tunic issued to Heer troops that had a  flat pocket flap and pleated pockets together .It was one or the other.
German tunics had pleated pockets up until around 1942. Around 1943, also for economy reasons and ease of assembly, the pocket flap was cut straight across ,until the end of the war.

Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 13, 2017, 12:13:34 AM
They look good (pocket flaps not withstanding).
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: ripley on October 13, 2017, 08:11:32 AM
I like them . I can live with wrong  pockets in this scale . Would rather see them out ASAP than sent out for a re sculpt that could take months ( ? ) . Plus the way I over do the GW wash on my figures the pockets won't be seen any way  ::)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 38 Gun Crew 171012
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 13, 2017, 05:41:02 PM
Your figures look very good. The only problem that I see is your figure's tunic pockets. There was never a tunic issued to Heer troops that had a  flat pocket flap and pleated pockets together .It was one or the other.
German tunics had pleated pockets up until around 1942. Around 1943, also for economy reasons and ease of assembly, the pocket flap was cut straight across ,until the end of the war.

It was the camera that is making the illusion...the pocket flap is not flat. If you look at the digital sculpts a few post earlier, you will see it.  Should have taken the photo with a proper camera instead of a phone one!  :(
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 01, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
To start the month of December, let's have something new!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AA%20Guns/88mm%20FlaK%2036-37%20171130-1_zps7u335x7o.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 02, 2017, 12:06:41 AM
Certainly going to be popular, if previous posts are to be believed.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Jaeger on December 02, 2017, 06:15:47 AM
YES!
I want both!
Very iconic field artillery anti-aircraft anti-tank piece.
Limbered and unlimbered?
What about the half track to move it about the battlerfield?
Perfect to oppose Operation Goodwood and tow around desert battlefields to engage British tanks.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Pinky on December 02, 2017, 09:13:16 AM
Rubicon showed the designs for the intended gun tractor for this several months ago.  Maybe they are planning a deluxe set with both gun and tractor!
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: ripley on December 02, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
Love the guns , but want to see the gun crew before getting more than one , ok , more than two  :-[
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Tracks on December 02, 2017, 09:45:40 PM
I'm still waiting to receive my Pak 36, and I cannot wait to order the Pak38 and Pak40 kits once they are available, but after the Pak38 and Pak40 are in my hands, I know I will be ordering one or two Flak36/37 kits when they become available.

Crews:
My only concern would be with the crews. Not just for the Flak36/37, but also with the Pak38 and Pak40. If you make them too anatomically correct, they will not blend in well with other 28mm WW2 miniatures (plastic or metal). Also, they will not be popular with gamers. For some reason gamers hate anatomically correct miniatures. There must be a fine line between anatomically correct and looking "gaming" good.

Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 02, 2017, 10:48:46 PM
Crews:
My only concern would be with the crews. Not just for the Flak36/37, but also with the Pak38 and Pak40. If you make them too anatomically correct, they will not blend in well with other 28mm WW2 miniatures (plastic or metal). Also, they will not be popular with gamers. For some reason, gamers hate anatomically correct miniatures. There must be a fine line between anatomically correct and looking "gaming" good.

There are just times that we must make our stance.  In the old days of the garage or home-brew foundries, many figures were sculpted anatomically correct; but the final product (the metal figure) was being distorted due to bad rubber mould castings... they got squeezed and deformed.  Of course, there are many factors that lead to the horrible "gorilla" style (some called them heroic-scale to make themselves feel better) human proportion.  We have seen much better sculpts in 15mm and 20mm, so why cannot 28mm?

Our figures are more or less based on the style of the Perry brothers, only slightly bigger to match the size of other metal figures in the market.  Don't think you will notice a big difference between our figures and from other manufacturers when placed on the gaming table.

If you look at the 28mm market right now, many manufacturers had begun to sculpt anatomically correct figures, both plastic and metal, to reflect a change of style because it is just wrong to sculpt these figures incorrectly!

;)

Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: ripley on December 03, 2017, 12:51:10 AM
IMO Rubicon's figures work well with the other plastic , metal and resin figures I have . All though it's nice to see uniform size and shape men on the gaming table , in reality people come in all shapes and sizes . And as long as the gear and personal weapons the figures come with , match the other brands you have it will work . Guys use 1/35 & 1/32 figures in 1/32  aircraft dioramas all the time due to lack of options in 1/32 . If all have the same rifle , canteen , mess kit , etc it works . IRC  helmets came in various sizes , ( US - 3 & German - 5 ), so you don't have to worry about that although you do have to pick and choose as some company 's figures are all over the place on scale , even in the same kit ( early MiniArt ) . I know I've rambled on a bit about 1/35 , but that's a scale I've had lots of experience with , having built WW 2 figures from maybe 20 different companies over the years . In 28mm we only have Warlord , PSC  , Perry , and Rubicon making WW 2 plastics , with PSC making 3 kits and Perry 2 . Warlord has about a dozen , and they have changed in size since their first releases , the late war German and the Brits  are not as heroic as the last few kits, with  the German weapons sprue  rifles being  much more to scale than the new ones , but you tend to break them easier . Perrys are on the slight size , and PSC are a little on the ape ugly size , but as modellers we should be able to mix and match and end up with unique , great looking figures , I think I do ,now if I could just improve my painting
(https://s2.postimg.org/hz6slgixh/tumblr_nhqdz59n_GP1rfehtgo1_500.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hz6slgixh/)
OK , this might be pushing it a little  :D
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Tracks on December 03, 2017, 01:34:14 AM
Crews:
My only concern would be with the crews. Not just for the Flak36/37, but also with the Pak38 and Pak40. If you make them too anatomically correct, they will not blend in well with other 28mm WW2 miniatures (plastic or metal). Also, they will not be popular with gamers. For some reason, gamers hate anatomically correct miniatures. There must be a fine line between anatomically correct and looking "gaming" good.

There are just times that we must make our stance.  In the old days of the garage or home-brew foundries, many figures were sculpted anatomically correct; but the final product (the metal figure) was being distorted due to bad rubber mould castings... they got squeezed and deformed.  Of course, there are many factors that lead to the horrible "gorilla" style (some called them heroic-scale to make themselves feel better) human proportion.  We have seen much better sculpts in 15mm and 20mm, so why cannot 28mm?

Our figures are more or less based on the style of the Perry brothers, only slightly bigger to match the size of other metal figures in the market.  Don't think you will notice a big difference between our figures and from other manufacturers when placed on the gaming table.

If you look at the 28mm market right now, many manufacturers had begun to sculpt anatomically correct figures, both plastic and metal, to reflect a change of style because it is just wrong to sculpt these figures incorrectly!

;)

I like the Parry brothers figures very much. They do great work! Their miniatures are a blend of semi-anatomically correct and a gaming look. Still, I know a few gamers that still think their figures are too thin. You can’t please everyone all the time.

Anatomically Correct:
It is important to note that while modeling figures tend to have much better anatomically correct proportions, wargames figures tend to have a bit more girth and oversized proportions because wargames sculptors want to put the emphasis on those parts, but also for other possible reasons like durability. While not a very important aspect, but something that is often overlooked by gamers is how their figures will hold up when handled as well as how are they going to paint up. A gamer will spend a small fortune on their miniature collections, and how the figures will stand up to the treatment of gaming as well as how the figures paint up should be a factor to consider. The latter of course all depends on a person’s painting skill level and/or style of painting because one brand of figure might be better to work with than another for a particular miniature painter.

As mentioned earlier, for some reason gamers dislike anatomically correct miniatures. I even remember a time - a long time ago - when CinC Miniatures made some very nice anatomically correct Napoleonic miniatures. However, they didn’t last long because nobody was buying them. I guess it is because they look too thin compared to other figures, or maybe they were too flimsy for the game table. Regardless, there is a trend for gamers to dislike anatomically correct figures. There has to be reason for this, but I do not know what it is.

Figure Height:
Normally wargaming figures are measured in height, not scale, but scales have begun to be assigned to figure height. More times than I would like to admit I have gotten drawn into a discussion about the proper height of figures. To me, it seems like a lot of gamers have their own opinions and suggestions about what the true size of a figure should be. My goal here is to cast some light on this subject. Now I’m not going to sit here and convey to the reader that I’m all knowing in this area, and that what I know and consider is correct or to be the absolute truth on the matter, but rather, they are my own opinions based on facts, and this is only my attempt to share them with others.

In the past, manufactures of figures tried more or less to produce figures of the same height. This measurement was from the bottom of the feet to the top of the figure’s head. This was actually beneficial for the gamer because unlike now, the availability and selection of figures in the past were very lean to say the least. In some cases, what one figure manufacture did not have another manufacture attempted to produce. Even though in most cases the different companies produced figures that were visually different in detail and design, they were at least very close to being of the same height which of course made them more compatible with each other on the gaming table. This way you did not have the unpleasant appearance of un-natural giants and/or midgets within the ranks of your miniature army formations.

The manufacturing of gaming figures is not regulated by any official office or convention, which means in essence that there is no true standard or guideline to follow. When companies decided to introduce and produce new figures for the gamer they are free to do as pleased. In the beginning however, some manufactures of gaming figures attempted to establish some sort of a standard size. At the time, the most common sizes were 15mm, 20mm, and 25mm figures, and according to some old literature printed up by some of these pioneer manufactures, the height of a figure was supposed to be the measured distance from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head. This of course seemed very reasonable since this only takes into account the height of a standing man and the thickness of the base as well as the headgear is irrelevant. Figures that measure 15mm or 25mm from the bottom of their feet to the top of their heads are what I will consider “True 15mm” or “True 25mm” miniatures.

As time progressed, figures had begun to get taller and taller leading to what is commonly known as the scale creep phenomenon. What started this phenomenon in the first place? The answer is not all that simple, but basically it seems to be the cause and effect for control of the figure market. That is, the trend is more about competition and greed than cooperation and teamwork among the figure manufactures. It seemed that one day a manufacture of figures decided to adjust the measurements of their figures to mean that 15mm or 25mm was the distance between the feet and the eyes, or to some other two obscure points. However, it didn’t stop there! Now it seems that this measurement is from the ankle to the nose or chin, which to me seems a bit ridiculous. What’s next, the distance from the knee to the clavical? The reason for all this was so that a manufacture’s figures would not blend in well with other manufactures. The result of this entire scale creep phenomenon was taller figures, but also a much wider range of sizes of non-compatibility. Personally, I see this to be a potential problem in the miniature gaming community as new comers to the hobby will only get confused and uncomfortable as they explore the details in getting started, and as a result might turn away from this wonderful hobby.

When I started there was a notion of true height, but it wasn’t a standard throughout the industry. Originally true size was measured from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head without measuring the base. In cases were a figure had a shako or other headgear making it hard to measure, it was approximately measured. This of course made figures from different manufactures compatible in height even if the details were very significant.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 03, 2017, 02:19:32 AM
I remember figure heights as always being ground to eyes because you could not see the top of the head, especially if said figure was wearing a shako.

I have a large collection of GZG 25mm figures.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: elias.tibbs on December 03, 2017, 02:32:38 AM
I prefer the Perry and Rubicon scale, and I’m a gamer before a modeller.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Tracks on December 04, 2017, 09:05:51 PM
Measuring to the eyes was the start of the scale creep.

Just like when you go to the doctor's office, they measure your height from the bottom of your feet to the top of the head. I suppose that is why back in the days figure height was measured from the bottom of the feet and to the top of the head. The latter was sometimes a best guess because the figure might have headgear, but it was a pretty good guess.

If you look at some older figures from the 70's and even 80's, you will see that they measure 15mm, 20mm, or 25mm from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head (not including headgear). For example, the old Heritage figures (Napoleonic and American Civil War ranges) were true 15mm figures, and the 15mm and 25mm that Minifigs produced were also a true height. Even all of the Scruby Miniatures that were advertised and 15mm, 20mm, or 25mm were of a true height. However, some of the older companies that are still around today like Minifigs have fallen prey to the scale creep phenomenon. Their latest 15mm figures for example measure a true height of 17mm, but they announced they would increase the height of some of their figures lines.

As for 28mm figures, some are true 28mm figures while others are not.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 05, 2017, 03:31:12 AM
I only entered the hobby in 1984 and (as you might guess) live in the UK, so they are brands I had never heard of.

Interesting timeline here:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html)

"20mm" has an interesting history, which is mentioned in passing in the above link. There is a reference to HO (also known as 3.5mm to the foot) as the US figures.

Due to (traditionally) United Kingdom railways having a smaller loading gauge than Continental railways it was not possible to get the mechanism into the 1/87 scale body shells (this version is occasionally disputed, though it is also repeated for N Gauge). The choice was made to use the scale of 4mm to the foot (or 1/76 scale), also known as OO gauge (which is 16.5mm gauge but 4mm to the foot scale - so narrow gauge of four foot one and half inches).

That means that the UK small figures (Airfix branded their figures as HO/OO but were 1/76) were bigger than true HO at 1/87.

A man 20mm tall is about five foot eight inches in HO, but only five foot in OO.

Of course the additional confusion of 1/72 scale (which I guess is the equivalent of US O Gauge scale of 1/48 due to US modellers not wanting to mix measurement systems) which requires a figure between 24 to 25mm to the top of the head.

Model railway wise the next scale is S Gauge at 1/64 scale which traditionally in the UK is thought to be 25mm scale.

I remember the Twilight 2000 figures being tiny compared to the Platoon 20 figures because the former were 1/87.



Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Pinky on December 05, 2017, 12:01:04 PM

There are just times that we must make our stance.  In the old days of the garage or home-brew foundries, many figures were sculpted anatomically correct; but the final product (the metal figure) was being distorted due to bad rubber mould castings... they got squeezed and deformed.  Of course, there are many factors that lead to the horrible "gorilla" style (some called them heroic-scale to make themselves feel better) human proportion.  We have seen much better sculpts in 15mm and 20mm, so why cannot 28mm?

Our figures are more or less based on the style of the Perry brothers, only slightly bigger to match the size of other metal figures in the market.  Don't think you will notice a big difference between our figures and from other manufacturers when placed on the gaming table.

If you look at the 28mm market right now, many manufacturers had begun to sculpt anatomically correct figures, both plastic and metal, to reflect a change of style because it is just wrong to sculpt these figures incorrectly!

This all makes sense, but to me your figures aren't always striking the right balance.  The British Army figures in the photos of your plastic fences don't look 'right'.  The uniforms are too close-fitting and the helmets are too small.  I think your designers are still struggling a bit with organic shapes, like soft stowage and clothing.  You're a bit scornful of the "gorilla" style, and I understand what you mean, but there is a reason for it - it has more visual impact (because the eye is drawn to certain aspects of the model), it tends to look more dynamic, and the exaggerated detail paints up better.  I think Rubicon are currently a bit conflicted on whether they are display models or wargaming models, although the scale you've chosen is overwhelmingly a wargaming scale.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - FlaK 36/37 initial drawing 171201
Post by: Tracks on December 05, 2017, 11:07:35 PM
I have to agree with Pinky in that "The British Army figures in the photos of your plastic fences don't look 'right'."

He also mentions, "- it has more visual impact (because the eye is drawn to certain aspects of the model), it tends to look more dynamic, and the exaggerated detail paints up better."

This is something that the Perry brothers have been experimenting with. On their figures, some of the details are a little exaggerated to catch the eye and to enhance the overall look. They don't over do it like other sculptors, but its a careful balance to get a "look"..

When things get scaled down, sometimes artificial optical aids or adjustments have to be added to a figure. Take for example a professionally painted miniature soldier. The painter doesn't simply paint everything in mono-tone colors. Instead, they add artificial shading and highlights to get a more realistic look. Sometimes this applies to physical details as well. By slightly over exaggerating certain details it can enhance the visual look of a figure. Because wargame figure sculptors want to put the emphasis in their work, you see this more evident in wargame figures than in modeling figures. Modeling figures tend to more anatomically correct with non-protruding details while wargaming figures tend to have oversized proportions and over exaggerated details. IMHO, I think its a fine balance of being precise and adding some exaggeration.
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - The LONG Haul... 171215
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 15, 2017, 01:02:00 PM
Finally get all the initial 3D drawings done!  Now have to go through all the details again to confirm correct, then proceed to 3D prototyping!
Like the real gun, the gun can elevate up to an 85-degree angle too!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/88mm%20FlaK%2036-37%20171130-2_zpsi0rcglio.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/AT%20Guns/88mm%20FlaK%2036-37%20171130-3_zpstyq2xn9m.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - The LONG Haul... 171215
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 15, 2017, 04:41:57 PM
Will it be able to swapped between the towed and the deployed cruciform base?
Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - The LONG Haul... 171215
Post by: Jimmy_P on December 15, 2017, 05:20:39 PM

Seriously looking forward to this one! Second being able to use both base options too!

Title: Re: German AA/AT Guns - The LONG Haul... 171215
Post by: elias.tibbs on December 15, 2017, 10:13:35 PM
I can see this selling very well...