Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => Wish Lists => Topic started by: Jimmy_P on October 09, 2017, 06:39:23 pm
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The SdKfz 10 was one of the most widely produced German vehicles of the war (14,000 odd) and formed the base of the 250 halftrack. There is only one manufacturer of a (resin) kit in 1/56, which still surprises me - it has a wide range of uses as a tow throughout the whole of the war and a number of interesting variants that could be modelled. Including of course the 10/4 and 5 AA which are likely to be of particular interest from a wargaming perspective.
I'd certainly pick up more than a few of them, for a number of different uses, and it seems like a particular gap in the market which Rubicon could fill - would go nicely with the range of AT and AA guns in progress too.
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Agreed. A vehicle produced in large numbers that would find a place in any German army of WWII.
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I have been looking for this very thing in 1/56 and have not yet stumbled upon the single resin kit you mentioned. Who makes it?
This vehicle is far more interesting to me than the ever-present Sd.Kfz 7. Yes, those 88's need to be towed by something, but how often do those show up in games anyway? And when they do, are they usually parked way in the back along a table edge (given their range). Do we need to have their transport handy? It's not likely to be hitched up to the gun to move and reposition the thing, is it?
Whereas the Sd.Kfz 10 towed all sorts of early and mid-war weaponry, and would be far more likely to show up on a tabletop, probably actually towing the weapon itself.
What was the standard tow for the Pak 36 37mm ATG? Yep, The Sd.Kfz 10
Didd it tow the Pak 38 50mm ATG? Yes indeed. And the ammo trailers as well.
How about the 20mm Flak 38 AA? Yes
Nebelwerfer 41? Yepper
Maybe the LeIG 18 75mm Artillery piece.
Not to mention the 10/1, 10/2, 10/3, 10/4 and 10/5 variants.
So yes, three cheers for the Sd.Kfz 10!!!
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I'm with you EWG. Although I think the Sd.Kfz.7 is an interesting vehicle and deserves inclusion by Rubicon it, and many other vehicles, don't really belong in the front line. I sometimes think they should be on a secondary table where they are only likely to be in danger from enemy artillery and tactical aircraft. At 1/56 scale they really shouldn't be mixing it with the opposing infantry and therefore on the primary gaming table unless broken down!
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Army Group North has a resin sdkfz 10 and sdkfz 10/5
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Yeah, exactly EWG! And it could be used throughout the whole length of the war really.
Johan beat me to it, AGN make one. I've got their 10/4 and it's not a bad model, I would have liked to get a couple of the standard 10s as tows too but the exchange rate kills that idea now (they're a Canadian company).
Hopefully Rubicon will add to their list! ;D
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Several of these vehicles are still being collected and showed at e.g the Militracks show in Overloon (NL)
https://f.jwwb.nl/public/7/7/8/foto-albert-overloon/w9e0bc/Militracks5.jpg (https://f.jwwb.nl/public/7/7/8/foto-albert-overloon/w9e0bc/Militracks5.jpg)
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Agreed. A vehicle produced in large numbers that would find a place in any German army of WWII.
I am with you here.
Apart from its large actual numbers, it also is the cheapest half-track option in BA (for units), so chances are it will be bought for sheer gaming purpose, too.
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Yes, it is surprising that we can't get a good Sdkfz 10 in a plastic kit. Especially since it was a commonly used vehicle.
From a wargaming point of view, the Sdkfz 10 would be a common sight in any German Army miniature collection because it was used from 1938 to 1945. It was mostly used as a common transport and tow, but there a few interesting variants of the Sdkfz 10 as well as a few field modifications like those that were fitted with a 37mm PaK 36 or a 50mm PaK 38 anti-tank gun. Rubicon Models already has a Pak 36 plastic kit, so it would be easy to make that field modification if only we had a Rubicon Models Sdkfz 10. More importantly, it would be nice to just have the Sdkfz 10 as a common transport or tow.
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Are there any parts compatibility with the 250 Half-track?
Are they something that could be a joint product with some nebelwerfers?
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IRC the 10 is a 250 frame lengthened with an extra road wheel ( 6 instead of 5 ) so all the kit track / wheel sets won't work . So I guess there's not much to reuse , but at least Rubicon has the wheel design in CAD somewhere , so that should save them some time , unless , like every other German half track , the stamped wheel pattern was unique to the 250 and not reused on other models ::)
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Looking forward to this model.
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Thought I would refresh this thread as the interest in a SdKFz 10 seems to be picking up again . Here's a multi view drawing of the 10 for those who don't know what it looks like ( plain jane troop transport / tow vehicle )
(https://i.postimg.cc/zH8MvwMB/Sd-Kfz-10-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zH8MvwMB)
The 10-2 and 10-3 were chemical vehicles that got phased out and reworked
(https://i.postimg.cc/XGkWsv6r/Sd-Kfz-10-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGkWsv6r)
(https://i.postimg.cc/m1ZsJGT8/Sd-Kfz-10-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/m1ZsJGT8) With the addition of a 20mm Flak 30 they became the 10-4
(https://i.postimg.cc/BPnrNcCz/Flak-30-note-Russian-MG.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPnrNcCz)
Here's a diagram of the various weapons the 10-1 could haul. Rubicon already has most of these out or soon to be released in plastic ( the Nebelwerfer in resin I think )
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVc8tScS/Tow-options.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVc8tScS) I do have a pile of pictures saved of various weapons both towed or mounted on the 10 , but I'll save those for another day :D
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I know that the SdKfz 10 Halftrack was commonly used to tow the PaK36, the PaK38, and the PaK40, and it could tow the PaK41 or PaK43, but was it commonly used to tow the PaK41 and PaK43 AT-guns?
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88mm Pak 41 weights 9600 pounds , the 88mm Pak 43 weights 13000 ( on its wheeled carriage ) . A SdKfz 6 can tow 11000 and a SdKfz 7 can tow 17,500. I think that the larger 8 ( tow 31,000 ) and 9 ( tow 39.500 ) would be a waste of a heavy tractor.
SdKfz 6
(https://i.postimg.cc/Btcqf1J7/SdKfz-6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Btcqf1J7)
SdKfz 6
(https://i.postimg.cc/562Mc77j/SdKfz-7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/562Mc77j)
(https://i.postimg.cc/z33k9Tw8/German-Halftrack-wheel-chart.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z33k9Tw8)
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The Sd.Kfz 10 was rated at 1 ton. Eventually they produced models that had a reinforced rear, and added air brakes, to allow it to tow heavier objects ... but NOT anything that was THAT heavy.
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We know you guys had been bugging us for an SdKfz 10, the vehicle had been on our radar for a long time.
We had even bought several reference books (including the one below) on the subject as well... just not the right time to start it as a project.
Patience is a virtue you know? ;)
(https://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/WWP%20SdKfz%207%20in%20details%20small_zps2hdukc91.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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Love those books by WWP
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Patience is a virtue you know? ;)
Since we are tossing out proverbial phrases, I would like to add one.
"The early bird gets the worm."
We're just worried that "someone might beat you to the punch" - sorry, another proverbial phrase. :D
Love those books by WWP
I don't have that particular book, but yes, they are good books.
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I've just realised that I really want an SdKfz 10 kit. In plastic. From Rubicon.
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I've just realised that I really want an SdKfz 10 kit. In plastic. From Rubicon.
as do I! ....that one further up is even in the right colour and 21PZ Div too....YES! :)
PS....Screw Patience. Now Damn It! Now!!! ;D
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I want something to tow this... with an armored cab preferably (be a nice build option). (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3f/1a/0f/3f1a0fa86bf456d9e7a261024b82b7b7--german-army-world-war.jpg)
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I want something to tow this... with an armored cab preferably (be a nice build option). (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3f/1a/0f/3f1a0fa86bf456d9e7a261024b82b7b7--german-army-world-war.jpg)
Have you been talking to Rich H?
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=116565.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=116565.0)
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There already is a kit that could tow that gun: the SdKfz 7 Prime Mover 8 ton.
So now it's just a simple easy short step to prototyping and creating the sprues. 4th quarter release just in time for Christmas.
Living the dream.. pipe dream...
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There already is a kit that could tow that gun: the SdKfz 7 Prime Mover 8 ton.
So now it's just a simple easy short step to prototyping and creating the sprues. 4th quarter release just in time for Christmas.
A little surprising that Klank missed this because its a new kit from Rubicon Models.
I will probably not be able to get mine until July or August, but I hear its a great kit.
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The SdKfz 10 was one of the most widely produced German vehicles of the war (14,000 odd) and formed the base of the 250 halftrack.
That is correct, the SdKfz 10 one-ton towing tracker was developed into to SdKfz 250 armored halftrack.
Because Rubicon Models already has an SdKfz 250 model kit (Product Code: 280032) already in production, I wonder how easy it would be for Rubicon Models to use the available files/diagrams/molds/sprues from that existing SdKfz 250 kit to make a new SdKfz 10 kit.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1221/3420/products/DRA6732_large.jpg?v=1459974255)
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Because Rubicon Models already has an SdKfz 250 model kit (Product Code: 280032) already in production, I wonder how easy it would be for Rubicon Models to use the available files/diagrams/molds/sprues from that existing SdKfz 250 kit to make a new SdKfz 10 kit.
We have looked into the SdKfz 10 before and it IS basically a redraw of the complete vehicle... maybe less the two front wheels.
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So ready by Christmas?
And look how it tows the anti-tank gun so well.
Just like the T-26 this kit could have a multitude of options. Troop transport and towing AT guns, platform for AT guns, platform for Anti-Aircraft guns. The mind boggles at the possibilities.
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Unfortunately for us, while the Sd.Kfz 10 was the "basis" for the Sd.Kfz 250, there were major changes made. Very little of the work done for one model could "port over" to be the start of the other model. The hull was shortened enough to drop a wheel, and the front end was also changed.
As they mentioned, they "might" get to reuse the two front wheels. And that is about it!
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If they did an SdKfz 10 all you'd get is every whinging that Rubicon only does German stuff.
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I understand the whining aspect, but with few exceptions, the Germans are going to be featured on almost 90% of every WWII game played that involves Europe.
Germans vrs Polish
Germans vrs Belgiam
Germans vrs Danish
Germans vrs French
Germans vrs BEF (France)
Germans vrs Norwegians
Germans vrs Greek
Germans vrs Russians
Germans vrs British (Desert)
Germans vrs Americans (Desert)
Germans vrs Americans (Italy)
Germans vrs British (Italy)
Germans vrs British (Europe Late War)
Germans vrs Americans (Europe Late War)
So unless someone is gaming Polish vrs Russians, Finnish vrs Russians or Italians vrs British (Desert), one of the two opponents sitting at that gaming table is likely German. So I can understand why any minis company has a larger product catalog of German stuff.
I think Rubicon is doing a pretty good job of offering up "Allied" equipment. With some stunning Shermans in gthe works.
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EWG makes a good point.
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If they did an SdKfz 10 all you'd get is every whinging that Rubicon only does German stuff.
And these will be the same people that will say Rubicon only does Sherman tanks when Rubicon Models releases their M4A1 kit.
I understand the whining aspect, but with few exceptions, the Germans are going to be featured on almost 90% of every WWII game played that involves Europe.
And this is the reason why many model and figure manufacturing companies predominately release German stuff, so why should Rubicon Models be any different?
You can never please all the gamers all the time, but you can please the majority of the gamers if you keep releasing "bread and butter" kits. The SdKfz 10 is one of those bread and butter items.
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The SdKfz 10 is one of those bread and butter items.
More like Marmite (other yeast based food stuffs are available). ^___^
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I'm sure a 10 while hit the stores eventually . Soon enough for some folks ? Probably not , but there lots of other kits out there to keep us busy . Between Rubicon ( 7 ) , Warlord (3 ) , Tamiya 1/48 ( 3) and a couple of Eastern European 1/48 kits in my stash , I'm going to be busy building kits for the next year ( or two ) , and I don't even play the game . It gets released , when it gets released . Both AFV and Dragon have had kits that guys would give their left nut for , on the "to be released soon " list for years and I mean years ( Dragon M3 - announced 8 years ago IRC ) , but there are lots of other kits to build in the mean time , so get building . If a 10 was released today , would you really have build it right away , or would it go on the stash pile to wait its turn ?
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If a 10 was released today , would you really have build it right away ,
Yes, and not just one of them.
It would be nice to have a few to add to all the Rubicon Models Pak38 and Pak40 anti-tank guns I have.
I even have a spare Rubicon Models Pak38 kit to use for one of those SdKfz 10 field modifications.
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Oh sure , remind me of those field mods ::) .... Your right , the 10 can't come soon enough :D
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I'd like to add not all wargames are played in the ETO, nor are they always played between axis and allied forces. Pick up games and tournament play often feature allied vs allied or axis vs axis. It does seem a large # of wargamers choose to play German/Axis forces, but I think this has more to do with acces to late war toys and/or the wheraboo factor than historical reasons. That Rubicon's release schedule is German leaning really isn't up for debate, and yes I'm tired of Shermans, as a British player it's almost insulting the m4a4 has been left until last, and only as an afterthought to fill a mould.
It's also a substantial assumption to think large numbers of wargamers are interested in purchasing yet another transport/tow. I know rubicon has been experiencing an identity crisis for some time now, but this is a wargaming scale.
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The M4A4 was already released a year or so by Warlord, so Rubicon decided to pass on it at that time and concentrate on other Sherman types . Various comments by people on this and other sites telling of their , let's just say " displeasure " with the Warlord kit had Rubicon rethink their position and now we look forward to their Sherman M4A4 and variants . Better late than never says I . Identity crisis ? Not sure what you mean . Rubicon have been branching out into some niche type resin kits ,( they do master and production work for other companies as well ) and they tend to challenge their newer staff by having them work on the weird and wonderful to push the envelope . With only 2 companies ( Warlord/ Italeri & Rubicon ) releasing plastic kits in 28mm - 1/56 we don't have the great variety like the 1/35 guys do with about 30 major companies . Every month there seems to be something cool being released , it might not make everybody happy but , until this scale becomes more main stream , ie , the scale model crowd buys into it , that's the way its going to be . Do I like everything Rubicon propose to release , no but pretty much 75% of their kits , both plastic and resin are going to end up on my hobby bench someday , now weather I ever build them is another story ….
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Let me clarify re: "identity crisis"
Rubicon first appeared marketing towards wargamers: simple assembly, multiple varients and expansion kits.
These efforts seem to have failed (look to bundle deals as they try to liquidate expansion inventory that won't sell) and now they seem to be trying to appeal to the scale model/diorama/rivet counter crowd (look to monopose pewter figures/kits and endless Sherman/P IV varients) which I believe to be a vocal minority (especially at this scale)
Don't get me wrong, Rubicon make the best kits in 1/56 (though working with abs plastic, especially their particular formula, sucks) and I absolutely love their product (for the most part it satisfies the magnetization addict in me) but they are clearly reeling and can't quite seem to determine/identify, and market to, their actual audience.
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First, let me agree with Ripley (saves me having to type duplicate text).
As was discussed way back when, the Sherman project was an elegant solution to deliver multiple kits quickly and accurately. The Sherman I, III and IV use common components extensively. The Sherman II has a more complicated hull (lots of odd curves) plus Rubicon decided to supply a new set of running gear. There is plenty of discussion on that on the Sherman project thread.
When the Sherman project started, a number of us asked about the Sherman V. Rubicon said that they were aware that a plastic version was in the pipeline from someone else, and because it was effectively a different vehicle (it would share turrets at the sprue level) it would not be a priority.
That they have designed and are progressing the Sherman V is great.
There may be some issues with their initial add on packs, which from your posting and other comments indicates that base vehicle and add on packs are being bundled. That is to be expected over time, and might indicate an evolution in marketing approach based on feedback. Another example is the 251 multi-kit, that probably contains lots of nice stuff that most wargamers do not need, when they are after a base half track. Hence that evolved into the add on kits.
The Sherman and Panzer IV are bread and butter tanks, Rubicon's clever engineering and design has allowed them to supply a large range of variants and that will appeal to the wargaming modeller.
Their more off-the-wall models (fencing, walls etc) are as Ripley pointed out making money from test piece development.
The giant mortar is one of those "look what we can do" centre-pieces, they will not sell many (possibly - though if you look through the Forge World catalogue, I may be wrong).
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They know who their market is, it’s both wargamers and diorama creators, plus other companies who use their services for other purposes than models.
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Your wish fulfilled... but we had a feeling that you will be asking for an SdKfz 10/4 or 10/5 soon! :P
(https://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/SdKfz%2010/SdKfz%2010%20190921-01_zpsnnpqidf8.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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Your wish fulfilled... but we had a feeling that you will be asking for an SdKfz 10/4 or 10/5 soon! :P
I will be very surprised if this plastic SdKfz 10 kit does not sell well when it finally comes out.
I was tempted to get at least a couple of the resin kits, but now I'm glad I didn't order the resin ones.
This will be first 1:56 (28mm) scale SdKfz 10 in plastic kit to be released, and because its RM, it should be really good. I was wondering which company (Rubicon Models or Warlord/Italeri) would be the first to release the SdKfz 10 in plastic kit form.
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Right, what are we all going to ask for next? :p
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The upgrades to mount anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons upon it.
Also to have various artillery for this vehicle to tow.
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Right, what are we all going to ask for next? :p
M3 Medium tank (Also known as the Lee or Grant)
or
Panzer II
Also to have various artillery for this vehicle to tow.
Rubicon Models already has available very good and very useful artillery pieces:
German Flak 36/37
German Pak 36
German Pak 38 or 97/38
German Pak 40
The latter three were commonly towed by the SdKfz 10. The 88 (Flak 36/37) of course would be a bit too big for the little SdKfz 10 to tow over long distances. However, no worries because Rubicon Models also offers the SdKfz 7 in plastic kit form to tow the famed 88.
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I second the M-3 Lee/Grant
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I second the M-3 Lee/Grant
Pretty sure they said the M3 medium was due at some point as they were using VVSS with the return roller directly above the boogies for it. Would make me wonder which mark of M3 medium they would make, or if they’d do the same as what they did with the Sherman kits.
Even if they don’t release all of the marks to begin with, they could still design it that way just incase.
How about a resin M2 medium kit? Just count all the MMGs...
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Various marks of the Lee / Grant could be made if the hull sides were molded flat with you adding the doors/ vision ports to sides depending on the version your modelling . The different style / size rear stowage boxes , groucer stowage boxes ( on glacis and over the driver ) , later model armored fan covers , bow MG plugs , and even the longer 75mm and counter balanced 37 could all be separate add on ( drill out a hole ) piece . Its the engine deck / rear plate exhausts that might be a pain , but who needs the diesel version of the Lee anyway ? The road wheels / track will be sorted once the early M4A1 kit is released
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I second the M-3 Lee/Grant
Pretty sure they said the M3 medium was due at some point as they were using VVSS with the return roller directly above the boogies for it. Would make me wonder which mark of M3 medium they would make, or if they’d do the same as what they did with the Sherman kits.
Yes, Rubicon did say that they would make the early VVSS suspension for the M4A1, and have the suspension available for use on upcoming M-3 Lee/Grant tank kits,and the M-7 Priest.
I seconded the suggestion by Elias because I'd really like to see a plastic M-3 Lee and a M-3 Grant kit.
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I'd love a cast hull Lee.
It looks so cool.
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Everyone else does he riveted hull, so it’ll be different.
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All though very cool looking , both versions of the cast hull never made it into combat , training only . Although one does show up in Bogart's 1942 movie Sahara as a wreck , so pretend combat then
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That's the great thing with a company wanting to cater to modellers. They have no excuse not to do the cast 8)