Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Rubicon Models on November 05, 2014, 10:12:28 pm
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With our multi-tasking crew on high gear, we have make changes to our T-34/76 and upgraded it into a T-34/85.
A comparison with the T-34/76 and the T-34/85:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34_85_05Nov2014-1_zps97acc567.jpg)
An closeup look on the new T-34/85:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34_85_05Nov2014-2_zps6eff7b0e.jpg)
New features include:
- A new kit, not a reworked or patched up job!
- A brand new turret with 2 mantlet choices.
- A new road wheel set for the T-34/85, not found on the T-34/76.
- A new hull for the T-34/85.
- Also a 3 sprue kit with the same Rubicon quality!
On the drawing board... Enjoy!
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Looks excellent, nice touch to add the mantlet for the D-5 Gun.
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Here is a closeup view of the new road wheel set found on the T-34/85:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34_85_05Nov2014-3_zps4ca8d260.jpg)
DO YOU KNOW...
One of the reasons why you cannot simply put a T-34/85 turret on top of a T-34/76 hull is because it has a bigger turret "ring"; and because of the bigger radius of this ring, the center of this ring (on the hull) had to be moved forward so that they will fit together during factory assembly.
C&C welcome!
;)
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Looks great . Really bummed that I've got 5 of the BA 85s . Nice to see both the 2 piece and later 1 piece commanders hatch . Are you going to include the early dish rim style road wheels ( found in your T-34 kit ) as many D-5 gunned tanks had those ? Also , how about giving us kit bashers the option by including rounded front fender pieces as again most D-5 tanks had these .
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Looks great . Really bummed that I've got 5 of the BA 85s . Nice to see both the 2 piece and later 1 piece commanders hatch . Are you going to include the early dish rim style road wheels ( found in your T-34 kit ) as many D-5 gunned tanks had those ? Also , how about giving us kit bashers the option by including rounded front fender pieces as again most D-5 tanks had these .
The 85s won't be available until Q1/15, by that time, your old 85s should retired! ;)
The 85 will only have the late war wheels as the 76s already had two sets of road wheels (and we assume people who will buy our 85s "would have" bought our 76s ;))... they are all interchangeable, so not going to put them in this kit; BUT we are going to include some surprises IF there are enough sprue space left!
The round front fender will require some extra work and a whole new hull top... don't think that will happen. However, as a kit basher, you probably can work your magic out with our 76 & 85 kits!
;)
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Now at the final phase of the eDrawing for the T-34/85 soviet tank...
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85Model1943v01_zpse3136e57.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85Model1944v01_zpsdc406e49.jpg)
While flipping through our reference material for the T-34, it seems like there is a "missing link" between our T-34/76 Model 40//41/42 and the T-34/85 Model 43/44... and we've found it!!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-76Model1943v01_zpsa02eb43c.jpg)
The T-34/76 Model 43 turret was left out because of limited sprue space on our T-34/76 Early & Mid War kit. May be someday when we release a limited edition version will include it in our release...
;)
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The T-34/85 looks great. I wonder though - given that your initial range of Panzers are all mid to late war, why didn't you release the T-34/76 model 43 instead of the earlier versions? Your T-34 looks very nice, but surely a mid-war version would have been more popular? Or you could have included the model 43 turret instead of 2 early turrets.
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The T-34/85 looks great. I wonder though - given that your initial range of Panzers are all mid to late war, why didn't you release the T-34/76 model 43 instead of the earlier versions? Your T-34 looks very nice, but surely a mid-war version would have been more popular? Or you could have included the model 43 turret instead of 2 early turrets.
It was a struggle when we decided to drop the 1943 turret. Our argument is that if we omitted the one of the earlier 40/41 turrets, there will be no early war representation of the T-34/76. Surely (history-wise) some early T-34/76s will still be around and survived well into 1943... We are sure the T-34/76 Model 1943 turret will show up somewhere along our product releases!
;)
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Here is an update on the T-34/85 with the 3D prototype done!
The new hull plus the other parts displayed below...
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85Hull_zps1bc74bef.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-3476amp85HullDifference_zps3c770f09.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85RoadWheels_zps8c6201ff.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85D5ampS53Mantlets_zps7fe57ded.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85S53Mantlet_zps6cccb581.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85D5Mantlet_zps6d6d1c6d.jpg)
C&C welcome!
;)
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Looks real good . If you had yours out 6 months ago I wouldn't have had to convert a couple of my Warlord T-34 / 85s to the early type . ::) All I can see you've missed is the vision slit above the loaders pistol port ( right turret side ) . The gunner didn't have one as his periscope was further back and could turn to fully face the left , the loader with his periscope further forward , was sort of jammed in by the gun breach , hence the slit .
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This is looking good! I think the only issue is some of the detailing on the turret - the ventilation dome was further forward on the earlier version (it may be that the photo is misleading and you've captured this point). I also think there was only one dome on the 1943 version, not the paired domes depicted, although that's pretty minor.
The 1943 version didn't have squared-off mudguards, but I don't think anyone is going to be too bothered about that either.
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Your right Pinky , the dome should almost touch the commander's cupola . I totally missed that . All my books show double fan domes on the 1943 pattern T-34 / 85 . A couple of factories started splitting the domes , one front , one rear on the 1945 model .
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Ripley: “All I can see you've missed is the vision slit above the loaders pistol port (right turret side). The gunner didn't have one as his periscope was further back and could turn to fully face the left, the loader with his periscope further forward, was sort of jammed in by the gun breach, hence the slit.”
Can you please show us where exactly? Thanks!
Pinky: “I think the only issue is some of the detailing on the turret - the ventilation dome was further forward on the earlier version (it may be that the photo is misleading and you've captured this point). I also think there was only one dome on the 1943 version, not the paired domes depicted, although that's pretty minor. The 1943 version didn't have squared-off mudguards, but I don't think anyone is going to be too bothered about that either.”
Has attached new top view of the two turret tops, we did noticed the some variations, but can you please show us the exact position? Appreciated that! BTW, we are using a Model 44 as a base reference, hence the squared-off mudguards.
Ripley: “the dome should almost touch the commander's cupola. I totally missed that. All my books show double fan domes on the 1943 pattern T-34/85. A couple of factories started splitting the domes, one front, one rear on the 1945 model.”
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Enclosing a top view of the two turret tops for further discussion:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85D5ampS53Mantletstopview_zpsea6de58b.jpg)
Also a reference drawing of the turret:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85Turrets01_zpse855ddfe.jpg)
We are using references based on a T-34/85 Model 1944, and then add and minus some features to give customers two turret top choices; some of the decisions is also based on machine tooling too! But if there are some very significant overlook, please point it out.
;)
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I did some more digging, and it seems that the single ventilator probably only appeared on the prototypes.
I understand there is a limit to what you can include in the it, and it makes sense to provide the squared-off mudguards. The vision slit that Ripley mentioned is probably rather difficult to include, given that you've provided the upper half of the turret in one piece.
Here is a photo of the 1943 version (so-called, although it was produced in early 1944) - it's the clearest one I could find that shows the position of the ventilators.
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I understand there is a limit to what you can include in the it, and it makes sense to provide the squared-off mudguards. The vision slit that Ripley mentioned is probably rather difficult to include, given that you've provided the upper half of the turret in one piece.
Here is a photo of the 1943 version (so-called, although it was produced in early 1944) - it's the clearest one I could find that shows the position of the ventilators.
We also have checked on the vision slit, some versions of the tank have it and some don't. On the production side, because it is on top of the pistol port, it is difficult to put one there based on our current design.
We probably will adjust the position of the ventilators on the D5 mantlet based on Ripley and your comments. Thanks again!
;)
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In the drawing of Plant 112 Jan - Feb 44 turret , notice both roof hatches are located forward on the roof , this was because the turret only had a two man crew as it used the original T-34 76 turret ring . There was no room for a third crew member or radio which was located in the hull just like the 76 model . The Feb - Mar 44 picture shows the hatches relocated aft as the larger turret ring was now being manufactured giving more room for the three man crew and radio . The gunner's vision slit on the early Plant 112 turrets was a hold over from manufacturing the T-34 Hex turrets , when the turret design was finalized it was removed . In Pinky's photo it shows an early Jan 44 turret , notice how far forward the commanders hatch is . A good cheap reference book ( under $ 20 ) is the Squadron / Signal T-34 in Action book ( No 20 ) . It shows most of the turret types and various changes in all the T-34 models . Lots of clear photos and drawings . In fact Pinky's tank is shown with about 20 others of the same regiment on parade , all having 4 man crews .
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Thanks Ripley! Don't think we can do much "major" rework of the design on the D-5T gun; but we still want to keep it as an cosmetic option for players. At present, we are already in the sprue layout stage, but we still have time to make final adjustments to our 3D model before the mould making phase!
Base on our available references (without newer references) plus yours (and Pinky's), may be the best option is to remove the cone-shaped ventilator and replace it with the smaller one plus the antennae mount (that is the bottom turret reference - Plant No 112 - Mar/Apr 44 style).
Any comments?
;)
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I would say leave the double dome fan alone , true its a little too far back but we can live with it , I mean other companies have a lot bigger problems on some their kits and most gamers don't care , or maybe they don't know . lol . You mention the cone shaped ventilator , I think you mean the cone/ pear shaped periscope cover , it was an intermediate type used on the early 85s , so I would still keep it , just add the antennae mount behind it. Many pictures I have show both types of periscopes on one tank ( T-34 / 76s as well ). I guess the factories just used whatever they had in stock at the time , there was a war on you know . lol Aside from that , both roof styles look great , and yes, the 2 piece hatch cupola was a smaller diameter than the one piece version , so your right on the money there . Sorry , don't mean to nit pick , so if I get out of line , send me to my hobby room . I spend way to much time on the computer as it is and I really should be building more Russian tank riders :)
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Ripley: Thanks for the comments! This is the type of customer interactions we would like to see. We might be good in creating products, but we are no "professional" military enthusiast that know everything! Customer input is important throughout the different stages of 3D model design.
This forum is create not just to show off our WIP projects, but a platform to exchange ideas and discuss features... We do learn from our past mistakes and will try to minimize obvious possible errors during the work process.
;)
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I would fix the ventilators, if you can. They may be primarily wargaming models, but it's worth trying to get the smaller details right - especially if you're going to go to the trouble of making relatively similar variants like the 1943 and 1944 versions of the T-34/85.
I would also agree with Ripley to keep the conical periscope on the 1943 turret, although it was much closer to the cupola than on your prototype. But I wouldn't add an antenna mount to the roof of the 1943 turret - the antenna was mounted on the right hull side on all but the last vehicles produced (you might as well make the 2 versions as different as possible).
I think the cupola on the 1944 turret might be a bit far forward - it seems as though it should be almost touching the ventilators.
One other suggestion - since these kits are going to appeal mostly to wargamers, I think you should mould the machine guns and tools a bit more overscale. It will make them more robust, and they'll fit in better with 28mm minis.
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Pinky: We are already working on the minor changes:
1) The ventilator position had been adjusted on the D-5T turret top.
2) The conical periscope on the D-5T turret top had been moved back a little bit towards the copula.
3) There are some minor position adjustment on the ventilator on the S-53 turret top as well.
4) The visual difference on the two turret top features is mainly because the front armour top plate is not extending far enough. We have extended it a little bit to give depth to the overall look of the turret.
Here is a reference drawing for our revised D-5T and S-53 turret top:
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34-85TurretTopReference01s_zps12c51e48.jpg)
We will look into the over-scale machine gun suggestion with our newer releases. As of now, projects that we have shown in our forum WIP section are already in the mould-making phrase; so nothing drastic we can do right now...
Thanks again for your feedback! We really like the interaction, and hopefully more members will participate in future project discussions.
;)
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These revisions look good. I think the ventilators should be almost touching the cupola on the 1943 turret, but it's probably at the point where noone will be bothered if it's a couple of millimetres out. I assume the angle of the hatches on the cupolas in these drawings isn't 'final', as they opened fore and aft (i.e. the way you had them before).
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The roof top C looks good for a mid 44 pattern tank . If you use roof top A , a Jan - Feb 44 tank with the hatch situated forward , you will have to give both sides of the turret - vision slits , it will also need those U shaped lift rings , the radio is in the hull by the bow gunner ( same as T-34 / 76 ) , the body will need round front fenders and the early dish style wheels to be accurate . Might be easier to make a roof with the two piece hatch located in the same spot as the large hatch . Add the antenna pot and the tear drop / oval style periscope and your good to go . These later tanks had various wheel types and square front fenders . In fact the factories that were building the tanks as well as the SU - 100 SPG are the ones who started adding the square fender. Some factories kept the round fender and dish wheels through out the war . There were about 8 factories building tanks , about 5 of the factories also made turrets so they shipped various styles to the other builders .So you could get a real variety of turret and body features , not to mention about 18 different styles of wheels and IRC about a dozen styles of T-34 track . :)
What ever you end up doing will be a great improvement on the kits out here already . And those of us who want too , can add or remove the features that bother us . All ready going through the parts box looking for U shaped hooks ...
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After much discussions and feedback from various forum members, together with our test fitting on the 3D prototype parts, we have refined our technical drawing on the T-34/85 design. This is our final version of the T-34/85 tank!
This is the early version (1943) of the T-34/85 with D5T mantlet. Note the position of the ventilator at the rear had been moved closer to the copula; plus the front pear-shaped periscope cover had been move backward towards the copula as well. In addition, the top front armour plate had been extended to make the sloping angle of the turret looks more natural.
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T34-85withD5Tmantlet_zpsd45eb720.jpg)
This is the late war version (1944) of the T-34/85 with S53 mantlet. We have added a flamethrower gun to turn this tank into an OT34/85. The flamethrower is backward compatible with our T-34/76 kit; hence all parts are interchangeable (except for the hull - turret ring is larger on the T-34/85)!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/OT34-85withS53mantlet_zps41d51663.jpg)
C&C are most welcome! We will send the design to factory for mould making early next week!
;)
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If I knew how to find the icon , I'ld give you two thumbs up . Looks great !
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Ripley: Had to thank you and Pinky for the feedback and advice!
Don't think there are Thumbs Up icon here, lol! ;D
BTW, we have included two types of "Turret Lifting Fittings" on the two diagrams... which one you think looks better? Both are quite common on the T-34/85 turret, but we can only do one.
;)
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Your welcome , glad I could help . I would say the hooks on the S53 version were more common through out WW2 tank production , in fact even the post war Polish manufactured tanks still had this type of lift hook . The U shaped hooks were only used by one factory at the very start of the T-34 / 85 production . And as I stated in an earlier post , those tanks had lots of little details that were deleted to streamline production ie : gunner's vision slit , hull mounted radio , etc .
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Your welcome , glad I could help . I would say the hooks on the S53 version were more common through out WW2 tank production , in fact even the post war Polish manufactured tanks still had this type of lift hook . The U shaped hooks were only used by one factory at the very start of the T-34 / 85 production . And as I stated in an earlier post , those tanks had lots of little details that were deleted to streamline production ie : gunner's vision slit , hull mounted radio , etc .
Noted with thanks! :D
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These drawings look good. This is shaping up to be your best kit yet. I'll definitely buy a couple.
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After much work, and working in secret about our added BONUS... The T-34/85 plastic kit is finally done!
Our 1/56 T-34/85 plastic kit can be assembled into either a Model 1943 or 1944 version of the tank. It comes with 2 turret top and 2 mantlet choices with oil drums & accessories included. You also have an option to built the tank as an OT-34/85 flamethrower tank too.
As an added BONUS, we have included a T-34/76 Model 1943 turret (commonly known as the Hex or Mickey Mouse turret) for those who had already brought our T-34/76 (280013) plastic kit!
Product Code: 280021
Number of Parts: 50 pieces / 3 sprues
Availability: Late March
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Bonus%20Banner%2001_zpsxh9dqa88.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20with%20D-5T%20Mantlet%2001_zpsiaaqejko.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/D-5T%20Turret%20Closeup%20View%2001_zpsxfr5nymc.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/OT-34-85%20with%20S-53%20Mantlet%2001_zpsk3jsvmjk.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/S-53%20Turret%20Closeup%20View%2001_zpskupi8khy.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Group%20Photo%2004_zpstto3nls1.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Group%20Photo%2001_zpsguc2p0o3.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-76%20Mod%2043%2001_zpstgilkani.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-76%20Mod%2043%2003_zpscfp4w6rn.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-76%20Mod%2043%2004_zpsrztiiepd.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-76%20Mod%2043%2002_zpspwpihpeg.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Group%20Photo%2003_zpsgbfu0y4y.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Group%20Photo%2002_zps2igatzfs.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-76%20Mod%2043%2005_zpsvj8gqj8p.jpg)
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-85/T-34-85%20Group%20Photo%2005_zpsffagqyte.jpg)
Enjoy!
;)
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The T-34/85 looks great! Lovely work on the tracks and running gear especially.
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Your work never fails to amaze with the attention to detail and varied choice well done.
Cheers
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Wow!
The bonus turret is the winner for me, an excellent idea.
Sold!
Cheers
SP
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That s fantastic news.
The t34/76 turret fits also in the t34/85 hull ?
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The t34/76 turret fits also in the t34/85 hull ?
The answer is NO. This is also true with the real tank, the T-34/85 and T-34/76 had different turret ring size due to the main gun. The T-34/85 turret ring is being enlarged and moved forward to accommodate the larger turret!
;)
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We don't just make and forget! Whenever there is an opportunity, we will spend time and efforts to make things right!
Here is an updated fuel canister and hull machine gun for the T-34 for future production!
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/T34-76/T-34%20Sprue%20Update%20160120-1_zpsum6uwzgb.jpg)
Enjoy!
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I was okay with the existing ones - it's only when you re-did them that they looked in any way inadequate! Any plans to update the existing T-34 kits? Or is that too impractical/expensive?