Rubicon Models

Rubicon Models => Wish Lists => Topic started by: tyroflyer on January 07, 2017, 10:17:33 AM

Title: Italian M13/40
Post by: tyroflyer on January 07, 2017, 10:17:33 AM
I would like the Italian M13/40 to get serious consideration. There is a colourful character on this forum who has made it less than his secret desire. In view of his contribution to this forum and Rubicon with his considerable knowledge I think it deserves a place in the queue above what might be it's natural position. I note others have also expressed an interest in Italian vehicles.

 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 07, 2017, 04:37:33 PM
I wonder who you are referring to?

http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=509.msg5282#msg5282
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=253.msg2398#msg2398
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=103.msg5281#msg5281

There are more...

Some Threadomancy on topic 509 might have been useful.

I was expecting a push by Warlord on Italian forces to go with the North Africa theatre book, which failed to materialise.

Possibly an opportunity for a box containing a tank and infantry in plastic? Of course then do you style the figures similar to the Perry plastics and their Italian metals or continue with the Bolt Action style?

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p3oUl6qpacw/U0wykTrAIZI/AAAAAAAAAr0/eIQbDQOUOnk/s1600/ww2scale.png)
Bolt Action BEF metal and unfinished Perry plastic (from a.comparison post used on a different forum in April 2014 and still not finished ^___^).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: tyroflyer on January 08, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Not sure I want to encourage Rubicon to dissipate their considerable talent by doing infantry as well. I admit I have a bias to only buying my infantry in metal. I understand Rubicon wanting to crew their vehicles with plastic figures to ensure they are compatible if nothing else. However I'd prefer to see them concentrate on the vehicles themselves and the figures necessary to crew them. There are after all plenty to do.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 08, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
My thought is that the availability of vehicles and figures in plastic might make the force and theatre more attractive.

Being able to put together a small force for Bolt Action or one of the skirmish games at low cost might tempt players to splash out on the kits.

Plastic figures allow bigger forces to be more economical, I would generally only buy plastics unless it was something special. I also find they are more "fun" to build, allowing conversions, I have a "counts as" Commando "K gunner" armed with an MG42. YMMV.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 08, 2017, 05:25:00 PM
Wikipedia entry:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_M13/40

Apparently used by German and Commonwealth forces (basically both sides used anything that moved).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on January 08, 2017, 11:58:08 PM
It and its Semovente  cousin , like the 38t , are so cool looking all covered in rivets . Probably really crap in the game , but cool . Hopefully Rubicon gets their skills to the level where this style vehicle becomes much easier to design . The Stug III was better designed than the Panzer III , and we can see the improvements their making on the new Sherman designs .  Of course what usually happens is you give up waiting , spend mega bucks on a nice resin kit , and then they release the plastic one , so who wants to take one for the team ? lol
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 09, 2017, 10:27:11 AM
After the superb work that Rubicon did with the Crusader, we know they could produce a fantastic kit of the M13/40.  But they mentioned that doing all those rivets is very labour-intensive, and there must be a big question about the popularity of Italian armour.  Although ESCI's 1/72 scale M13/40 and Semovente seemed to be very popular at the time.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: H0ffmn on January 09, 2017, 10:54:57 AM
As far as the M-13/40's popularity,Tamiya thought enough of the kit to re-tool the1/35 molds and reissue the M-13/40. I know that they are a large company, but I think that there would have to be some kind of a demand for them to  invest the money to re-tool the kit.Another company who makes 28mm resin kits, only box their more popular kits for sale here in the U.S. , and the M-13/40 is one of those kits...........
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on January 09, 2017, 11:13:18 AM
And the word is that a plastic box of Italian Infantry is on the cards after the Brit Paras  ( and  the Greatcoat / Winter Germans ?  )
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 09, 2017, 11:57:28 AM
Then I shall continue the campaign for some Rubicon Italian tanks.  Although, being Italian, you'd think that Italeri would want to do them (their 1/35 scale M13/40 kit was once considered a standard-setting model, and formed the template for ESCI's 1/72 scale version).  I would have preferred Italian infantry from the Perrys, so they're consistent with the DAK and 8th Army figures. 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on January 09, 2017, 12:36:19 PM
I hope someone brings out , let's say , the  less cool  tanks  in plastic .  ::) We know for the most part what Rubicon is working on , other companies seem to guard their plans like it's a state secret .  You would think they would want some feed back from gamers and model builders , wouldn't you ?   There are a few small resin companies making some  French , Italian and Japanese tanks , which seem quite popular with those who like to build resin kits . I hope the market keeps growing on the plastic side as well .
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: tyroflyer on January 09, 2017, 01:30:19 PM
It would be nice if Rubicon could, even if rarely, produce a model that is out of the mainstream. It would give some of us hope that less common vehicles will see the light of day. Some of Rubicon's early statements suggest this is the intention once the business is firmly established. The M13/40 would be a good place to start. If it sold well there would hopefully be more.

Personally I think most of Rubicon's choices are great but I'm less enthused with anti-tank guns and various crewed weapons because I'm more likely to buy them in metal.

Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 09, 2017, 03:01:50 PM
Personally I think most of Rubicon's choices are great but I'm less enthused with anti-tank guns and various crewed weapons because I'm more likely to buy them in metal.

Generally, I think they've made some great choices - vehicles like the SU-122, M36 and M5A1/M8 were very welcome.  Not to mention their growing range of trucks.  I also like the idea of plastic anti-tank guns, as I prefer all of my figures to be plastic (they're also a good opportunity to build mini-dioramas).  I'm less keen on the heavy focus on German subjects, however - I think a Pak 38 or 40 would have been enough, and would have preferred a Soviet or British gun. 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 09, 2017, 04:50:48 PM
And the word is that a plastic box of Italian Infantry is on the cards after the Brit Paras  ( and  the Greatcoat / Winter Germans ?  )
Will they be desert Italians? In which case their decision on style will be interesting. I agree with Pinky that Perry style would match the existing North Africa figures better.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 09, 2017, 04:56:54 PM
I do not have the Bolt Action Axis book, what are the equivalent British and German tanks (points wise).

My guess is Armoured Car; light AT; coax mg; front arc mg with extra die; optional aamg. Possibly rivetted construction.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on January 09, 2017, 09:28:13 PM
The "word" is Italians in Africa , as that's where they were more  active . I'm sure some figures would cross over to the mainland battles , just like the plastic  Jerry Para box has a mix of early and late unis . All just wild guesses at the moment , who knows what and when Warlord will release . It took them almost a year to get their Kelly's Heroes figures out from when we first saw the "greens ". I find it funny that Perry didn't release a plastic set though , but they do have metal Italians that look very nice , if you like metals . No idea on any points value for anything as I don't play , I just build models  :D
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 09, 2017, 09:31:26 PM
An M13/40 is 98 (inexperienced) 125 (regular) 152 (veteran).  The same as a Panzer III Ausf F (in 1st edition Armies of Germany).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 10, 2017, 12:44:40 AM
An M13/40 is 98 (inexperienced) 125 (regular) 152 (veteran).  The same as a Panzer III Ausf F (in 1st edition Armies of Germany).
Thanks.

Any idea of the British equivalent? I am on-site at the moment so no access to my copy of the British lists.

Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on January 10, 2017, 09:16:05 AM
Crusader 1 with the 2pdr , and  maybe the Valentine, again with the 2 pr
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 10, 2017, 10:04:55 AM
Any idea of the British equivalent? I am on-site at the moment so no access to my copy of the British lists.

No - I don't seem to have the British Army book.  Nor do I have Duel in the Sun - I must get that one!
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on January 10, 2017, 05:32:43 PM
Crusader 1 with the 2pdr , and  maybe the Valentine, again with the 2 pr

Cool, thanks.

Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on January 14, 2017, 01:20:44 PM
A Crusader I is 108/135/162.  I think that's the same as the M14/41.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 07, 2017, 06:09:40 PM
Might be worth checking out the Toy fair reports.
http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=97705.msg1211951#msg1211951 (http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=97705.msg1211951#msg1211951)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 07, 2017, 06:43:02 PM
Might be worth checking out the Toy fair reports.
http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=97705.msg1211951#msg1211951 (http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=97705.msg1211951#msg1211951)

This is good news, can take some pressure from us to do Italians.  They should be the expert, lol.

Doing some more google search... think those are 1/72 placed besides some existing 1/56 tanks.  The only new one is the IS2/JS2...
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Patrick R on February 07, 2017, 07:17:15 PM
If people actually used their eyes rather than their desires they would notice that the Matilda and 88mm are part of the 1/72nd Arras set.

I'd venture that the whole row of Stug, Semovente, M13 and 88mm are in fact 1/72nd scale models, judging by the size and pose of the infantry figures.

There was a rumour from Warlord that an Italian vehicle was in the making.  Given that most of the Warlord/Italeri models announced for 2017 have already been released or about to be released we should expect to see something in the remaining 9-10 months of 2017 ...
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Ballardian on February 07, 2017, 08:44:29 PM
 I'll certainly put my hand up to a bit of wishful thinking, the Matlidas were at the front of the case, level with the 1/56 M10, & looked a little large for 1/72.
However, they are, as said by Patrick R, part of their 1/72 range :'( (gropes around for excuse, finds none, bugger...)
(https://s29.postimg.org/4abeaxgmb/Italeri_Nuremberg_Toy_fair_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4abeaxgmb/)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 07, 2017, 08:53:18 PM
Think this will explain themselves...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/16251772_1414951531910796_5972250088679809461_o_zpsecuatirf.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/16300335_1414951668577449_3534677619950949314_o_zpsvgxalyud.jpg)

;)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on February 07, 2017, 09:16:53 PM
Hmm ,the 1st group ( left ) is 3 X Churchill ( 1 with deep wadding trunks - new ? ) , a M4 , Panther and the 2 versions of the M8 AC . Middle- KV I/II , M3 Stuart ,Hellcat , a JS ( wow  ! ) , Right - M4 , Pzr III , Puma , Stug , Tiger , Churchill , M10 . . The far right stuff is all 1/72 - Bummer  ::)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 07, 2017, 09:23:02 PM
I had my hopes up there for a bit, but realised that the StuGs on the right are too small to also be 1/56, which meant the Italian tanks aren't either and must be 1/72 (I bet they the old ESCI kits).  Then I saw they had the same Italian tanks on display last year.  Italeri are always doing things like this. 

However, I think the Matilda nearer the camera is a 1/56 scale model.  Perspective doesn't explain the size difference, and it seems to have Warlord 28mm figures beside it (the other figures are clearly 1/72).

Here's a clearer photo that seems to prove it:

(https://s29.postimg.org/fj3ooevyr/IMG_0064.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fj3ooevyr/)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 07, 2017, 09:38:54 PM
Sorry to disappoint you all... All these are, in fact, part of the Italeri "Battle of Arras 1940" 1:72 scale Battle Set.
Here is the store link that listed all the components:

http://shop.italeri.com/Products/21830-6118-wwii-battleset-1940-battle-of-arras-rommel-of.aspx

:(
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 07, 2017, 10:06:28 PM
Yes, that does seem to settle it.  There are 2 Matilda's in the set (again, probably the old ESCI kit), so that must be them in the photos.  It looks as though the apparent size difference I pointed out is just perspective.

I guess the pressure is back on Rubicon to do that M13/40 / Semovente kit  ;)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on February 07, 2017, 10:22:32 PM
Every one , including me , always thinks the Matilda is a small tank , in reality it is 2 inches longer than a Pzr III ( minus gun ) but 14 inches narrower ,and the  same height .  A Matilda would be nice in 1/56 though , but we will need early war tanks for it to go against  unless you take on the Japanese with a Matilda frog flame thrower tank 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 07, 2017, 11:08:31 PM
So, all that's coming from Italeri (it seems) is the IS-2.  That's no bad thing - it will be a nice companion to Rubicon's range of Soviet armour. 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on February 08, 2017, 12:56:25 AM
If we get a JS 2 then a ISU 122/ 152 wouldn't be too hard to imagine for a future release . Hope Rubicon gets to work on some  the Italian tanks
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 08, 2017, 12:59:37 AM
Oh well.

In Ballardian's defence I could not see any indication of the scale of the Arras background in the supplied photograph and it does have 1/56 plastered all over the width of the cabinet. They did not pass the text of the poster by an English speaker either (a lot better than my Italian though ^___^).

Kudos to Ripley for identifying the models that were 1/56, I did note the Churchill in wellies.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 08, 2017, 01:21:28 AM
We really wanted to do some Italians, but our work schedule had been so tight, we need extra hands to start any new projects.

Last year was basically trying new things and ideas, upgrading our equipment, and training people for this year.  That's also why we are not producing new kits as much as we wanted.

This year, we are ready!  University graduates are starting to look for jobs, probably is a good time to start recruiting too.  Hopefully will get some new blood into the industry...
;)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Patrick R on February 08, 2017, 01:55:03 AM
Warlord/Italeri do have at least an Italian tank kit and a Chi Ha in the works.  I guess the next update will probably be at Salute with everything planned for the second half of 2017.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: H0ffmn on February 08, 2017, 09:11:25 AM
Just curious, where did you find that out, about Italeri having a Chi Ha and a M13/40 in the works??
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 08, 2017, 09:45:59 AM
Just curious, where did you find that out, about Italeri having a Chi Ha and a M13/40 in the works??

I was going to ask the same thing!
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Patrick R on February 08, 2017, 07:22:33 PM
Because I asked somebody from Warlord about upcoming releases ?
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 08, 2017, 07:42:36 PM
Because I asked somebody from Warlord about upcoming releases ?

Oh, so no Mission: Impossible style abseiling into an office in Lenton, Bond style shoot outs in the factory or Jack Bauer interrogation of passing staff?
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on February 08, 2017, 07:44:22 PM
Because I asked somebody from Warlord about upcoming releases ?

We heard the same thing, but may be not from Italeri but from their own BA line...  similar to the Firefly VC!  ::)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 08, 2017, 10:31:17 PM
But Warlord haven't done a kit of their own since the T-34/76 (I think).  Everything since has been Italeri or scaled-up PSC - including the Sherman V.  I'm not convinced they'll do a very good job on relatively detail-heavy vehicles like the Chi Ha and M13/40.  Anyway, hopefully they'll come with plenty of options - the Chi Ha kit could potentially include the Type 1 Ho Ni SP gun and the Shinhoto Chi Ha.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: H0ffmn on February 09, 2017, 12:20:03 AM
Warlord did a decent job with their first few tank kits, the M-4, Tiger 1, Panther and T-34. Hopefully they don't use the same mold making process as they did with their Sherman V, it's a horrible kit.
But even better yet, maybe this thread will inspire Rubicon to move the M13/40 up on their priority list???
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 09, 2017, 12:45:09 AM
I think the M4, Panther and Tiger I were Italeri kits, weren't they?

The Sherman V was scaled up from the 15mm PSC design, hence the heavy-handed detail.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: H0ffmn on February 09, 2017, 02:26:15 AM
I don't remember the Italeri logo being on the earlier kit boxes. Maybe Italeri made  them for Warlord?
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 09, 2017, 02:51:42 AM
I don't remember the Italeri logo being on the earlier kit boxes. Maybe Italeri made  them for Warlord?
Salute 2014 instructions
(https://s23.postimg.org/kkniwei1z/IMG_20170208_184648.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kkniwei1z/)
I do not have access to any boxes (I might have one left from the original five).
Italeri's seemed to issue their own boxes of the kits later, the KV-1/2 kit appears to have a much later release date from Italeri.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on February 09, 2017, 09:31:04 AM
I don't have the boxes , but still have the instructions for these kits   - BA/ Italeri logos are on  the Panther , Pzr III  ,Puma , M4 , Cromwell & Tiger . The BA logo is on the Universal Carrier , M3A1 Halftrack , 251 C , and T-34 76/85 . Italeri also boxes some BA plastic troops in their own boxes . The more companies that produce kits , the better chance we have of getting that favorite kit we're just waiting  for  ( Tiger II , Matilda , etc ) . The quality of Rubicon's kits have made the other guys up their game  and improve , and Rubicon has decided to retool their early kits to bring up to currant standard . Its a win for us IMO .
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 09, 2017, 09:53:58 AM
Yes, those kits are by Warlord, although someone (maybe it was Rubicon) said that they were actually designed for Warlord by Renedra.  My only point was that, compared to Rubicon and Italeri, Warlord's own kits aren't that great.  Compare the Warlord M3A1 half-track with Rubicon's to see what I mean.  Strange that some reviewers (like the chap from Volleyfire) can't seem to see the difference...

Still, I'd rather have an average plastic kit of the M13/40 than a resin one!
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: H0ffmn on February 09, 2017, 10:00:13 AM
Oops. I am wrong about the M-4, Tiger 1 and Panther not having the Italeri logos on the early kit boxes. I mixed them up with the Warlord Panzer IV and M-3 halftrack kits. Sorry
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on February 09, 2017, 05:38:37 PM
Yes, those kits are by Warlord, although someone (maybe it was Rubicon) said that they were actually designed for Warlord by Renedra.
My suspicion is that besides the Giant Womble of Nottingham, Renedra is the only game (or at least manufacturer) in town (or country).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on February 11, 2017, 12:40:12 PM
And PSC.  Don't they mould their own now?

I see the Warlord/Italeri IS-2 is out.  It looks okay, but seems a bit rough compared with their best kits (like the StuG III) - look at the tracks and spare fuel tanks.  Is this the last one from Italeri?
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on February 11, 2017, 01:27:37 PM
Doesn't look too bad , although IMO the road wheels are wrong . Always something  ::)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 24, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
Interesting - Italeri/Warlord have just released a plastic Chi-ha kit.  That accords with the rumour mentioned above, which means a plastic M13/40 may well be in the works. 

The Chi-ha looks okay, judging from the photos, although I'm going to bet that it's a bit fiddly to assemble (like the M3).  It's not a tank I'm in any hurry to get (I still haven't picked up the Warlord KV-1 or IS-2), but it could be quite popular. 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Rubicon Models on March 24, 2017, 08:24:03 PM
Interesting - Italeri/Warlord have just released a plastic Chi-ha kit.  That accords with the rumour mentioned above, which means a plastic M13/40 may well be in the works. 
The Chi-ha looks okay, judging from the photos, although I'm going to bet that it's a bit fiddly to assemble (like the M3).  It's not a tank I'm in any hurry to get (I still haven't picked up the Warlord KV-1 or IS-2), but it could be quite popular.

Italeri also just shown a plastic Tiger II at the GAMA show in the US too!
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Ballardian on March 24, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
Quote
Italeri also just shown a plastic Tiger II at the GAMA show in the US too!
Interesting, anyone got a picture?
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 25, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
Quote
Italeri also just shown a plastic Tiger II at the GAMA show in the US too!
Interesting, anyone got a picture?

I second that (saying that I have not found the Japanese tank either.).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 25, 2017, 01:24:58 AM
Chi - Ha is shown on Warlord / Bolt action new items tab . Looks like you get a Shinhoto 47mm turret as well ( 2 turrets like the KV ) . Weather you get all the parts for both turrets ( mgs , hatches , etc ) is another matter . You do in the KV , you don't in the Churchill
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 25, 2017, 01:41:32 AM
Here's the box top.  Apologies to Rubicon if this looks like promoting the competition on their site, but I think it's worth discuss what Warlord/Italeri are doing. 

(https://s16.postimg.org/dtkj9wg35/402016001-_Chi-_Ha-_Platoon-01-box-front.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dtkj9wg35/)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 25, 2017, 01:55:06 AM
Thanks (and found the WL page, which went up today).

They do seem unsure if it contains decals, blast markers and status sheets (I suspect they will correct the page and remove/replace the errant question marks).

The only bits missing on the Churchill turret is the rear turret bin, the tubular thing on the side and the extinguishers.

I am using a Rubicon bin on my second turret.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 25, 2017, 05:17:46 AM
Right , I forgot about the bin in the Allied Stowage Set  :-[ The round tube thing is a signal flag bin ( more pre "43 ) , easy to make from plastic , or leave off completely
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 25, 2017, 06:59:20 AM
Right , I forgot about the bin in the Allied Stowage Set  :-[ The round tube thing is a signal flag bin ( more pre "43 ) , easy to make from plastic , or leave off completely

It is not the same bin, but it does fit (though it might obstruct the hatches).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 25, 2017, 08:28:42 AM
Its a Crusader style bin , seen on a lot of Shermans in North Africa and Italy .  Mind you the Mk III ( 1942 ) and early Mk IV Churchill's did have a more square turret bin when first issued , the angle cornered one came later . A square box is easy to make  ::)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 25, 2017, 04:40:08 PM
Yes, unfortunately for my (spare) Crusader turret, I assembled it before I had the Allied Stowage set.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hQENM7rOtts/VuSe4CNkUVI/AAAAAAAABTM/wmVppbHiVukw2MXfnry4K-qst847nsIBA/s1600/crusaderwip9.png)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HutjmqJjoSA/Vu00DI3zPdI/AAAAAAAABUE/ZUAaVCCTdusRe_9X4m85jLD5-87bIsjwA/s1600/crusaderwip16.png)

I covered it (and one of my M4s) because I find square boxes difficult.

Useful for the next Crusader (and the next M4 that I am going to try and use the shortened M4A4 sand shields on).

Back on topic, the assumption is that the title of this topic is a future Warlord kit.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 25, 2017, 10:50:50 PM
I think originally the topic was started to hopefully steer Rubicon in the direction of considering a M13/40 kit . Seems sort of useless now , as Italeri is rumored to have one on the way . Although , it's a Tiger II that's being shown at the GAMA show  . Who knows , maybe it's all smoke and mirrors to stall the competition from releasing a new kit . The larger scale companies ( Dragon , Hobby Boss , AFV ) do it all the time . As well , if a new company puts out a long wanted kit , everybody else seems to get one out ASAP to flood the market ( ie : about 8 King Tigers released in 1/35 lately , Meng , Tacom , Zvezda , repop Dragon .  And while Warlord , Italeri , and Rubicon might release the same tank kit , by far  the quality and detail of Rubicon's stands out . I would compare Rubicon's detail to the early 2000 Dragon kits ( not the newer Black Label crap ) but the 1/35 gold  standard that was set by Dragon when tanks were their main focus , not Marvel bobble heads and Star Wars merch like today . Although their 1/35 AT AT looks awesome . Sorry , rant over  :-[
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 25, 2017, 11:19:08 PM
I actually think Rubicon are closer to Tamiya in approach.  They engineer their kits far better than Warlord/Italeri; they are prepared to simplify the detail in some respects to do this (the tracks being the obvious example), but are increasingly proving able to combine detail with ease of assembly. 

I think the King Tiger will appear - the IS-2 signals it.  They (Italeri, not Warlord) also probably have their eye on the World of Tanks franchise, which they're already mining in larger scale.  I think WoT has attracted a horde of morons with no real understanding of armoured warfare or technology, but if it means more plastic tank kits it's fine.

UVS's comment about finding square boxes difficult is very funny.  I know exactly what he means.  That's why most of my WH40k stuff was Orky.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Ballardian on March 26, 2017, 02:28:50 AM
Found a pic of the WG/Italeri Tiger II (see below) - looks decent, on the plus side I like the cables/tools being seperate pieces (not molded on like those on their 251's fenders) & the mountable track sections. Don't much care for the Zim however, though once you chip a few bits off it'll look better (or just sand it all off). The cupola MG mount is still terrible (like those on the Tiger & Panther kits) but I suppose it's in the cause of making it more robust (not that I've had problems with Rubicons accurate version...).
 I don't doubt that a Rubicon version would be superior, but it's still nice to have a kit that'll (I assume) be available quite soon - I imagine I'll pick one up - despite not really needing one (got a CompanyB E-50 coming which fills pretty much the same slot) - it'll be a fun painting project.
 
(https://s28.postimg.org/vaqkrriyx/Tiger_II.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vaqkrriyx/)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 26, 2017, 03:02:33 AM
@Ripley, yes this does appear a bit off topic.

Good catch on the Tiger 2 photograph. Did one of their children assemble it?

At least if the surface details are additional components you can sand off the Zimmerit and put them back on.

And yes I will get at least one (a Rubicon one would be better).


Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: tyroflyer on March 26, 2017, 05:04:22 AM
Yes the original intent was to have Rubicon consider putting the M13/40 on their to do list. Whether or not that remains something worth advocating probably depends on the assessment of how good the rumoured Italeri kit turns out to be. I would like to see Rubicon make one eventually but there are other Italian tanks that could take its place on a priority list if an Italeri M13/40 proves to be very good.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 26, 2017, 10:14:24 AM
 The guy who does Warlords plastic build videos ,tends to leave sprue attachment points on the kits he builds . The King T must be one of his  ::) .  I do hope Rubicon decide to put out their own version of the M13/40 , King Tiger , etc  . As stated by others , theirs is a much better product ( even if I don't like the plastic ) .
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 26, 2017, 11:29:44 AM
That King Tiger looks pretty good.  Hopefully it has a Warlord-style commander and not a weedy Italeri one (they're never consistent).  The Zimmerit looks okay - I hopethe pattern is properly vertical and not diagonal like the Tiger I's...
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 30, 2017, 12:04:52 PM
Back to the M13/40 . Both tanks pictured are said to be M13/40 , but one has the side hull door on the bow  gunner's side , the other has it on the driver's . The usual one is seen on the driver's side , is this a proto- type or something else
(https://s27.postimg.org/ynvp45xy7/5042.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ynvp45xy7/)
Aberdeen Proving Ground  Maryland (? )USA
(https://s28.postimg.org/6zainwi4p/M13-40_kalemegdan.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6zainwi4p/)
Belgrade Serbia
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 30, 2017, 12:40:25 PM
The bottom photo must be an M15/42,  which had the access door on the other side of the hull.  You can see the improved armour around the hull machine gun.  I think part of the gun is missing.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 30, 2017, 03:45:13 PM
Inspired by this thread, I picked up Wavell's Offensive by Bryan Perfect from a charity shop.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 30, 2017, 09:18:26 PM
Pinky , your right . Never heard of , or seen one before . It seems only 90 ( + 28 by the Germans ) made and used in Italy and Yugoslavia . So it's mislabeled on the plaque . And your right again , it had a longer gun than the M13/40
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 30, 2017, 10:38:20 PM
220 were built, apparently.  It looks as though some were sent to Tunisia, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 31, 2017, 08:59:34 AM
I've seen the number of 90 by the Italians and another 30 finished on the production line by the Germans after the Italians switched sides ., on at least 3 web  sites . I wonder if the 220 number includes the Semovente types built  on this  vehicle  model ? . It seems the Germans took over the tanks when  Italy surrendered , as they had 80 odd in Yugoslavia , mostly in SS anti partizan units . Pictures of 15/42s labelled as in  in North Africa  are really hard to decide about, as usually the side door on either side  is not in view.  The pictures that do show the right side door all seem to be tanks in use by the Germans . 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on March 31, 2017, 03:25:50 PM
If (when) Rubicon do produce a kit, I hope they do the giant kangaroo recognition markers the Australian's painted on their ones. Nice close up in the Perret book (page 60).
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Pinky on March 31, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
I've seen the number of 90 by the Italians and another 30 finished on the production line by the Germans after the Italians switched sides ., on at least 3 web  sites . I wonder if the 220 number includes the Semovente types built  on this  vehicle  model ? . It seems the Germans took over the tanks when  Italy surrendered , as they had 80 odd in Yugoslavia , mostly in SS anti partizan units . Pictures of 15/42s labelled as in  in North Africa  are really hard to decide about, as usually the side door on either side  is not in view.  The pictures that do show the right side door all seem to be tanks in use by the Germans .

Zaloga's Osprey book on Italian medium tanks says 220 - maybe that does include Semoventi.  He specifically says that there was 1 M15/42 in North Africa in 1942 as a test vehicle.  However, the details on which types were in service in North Africa from Alamein onwards gets less specific.  There is a photo of an M15/42 in what seems to be Tunisia, but it may not be. 
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ripley on March 31, 2017, 08:40:24 PM
From what I read , it was special designed with extra air  filters to keep out sand , as well as the  1st med Italian tank with power traverse . As usual by the time it was ready for the troops  , the Italians were just about kicked out of North Africa , so no need for sand filters . There are a couple of neat 4 gun AA versions of this tank , might have to try to kit bash one in 1/35
(https://s12.postimg.org/s2bpgxf3d/Fiat-ansaldo_m15_antiaereo.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/s2bpgxf3d/)
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: Drkangell on June 10, 2017, 07:23:15 AM
Can we open this beyond the M13/40? I would like to see that tank but I would also love to see other Italian vehicles as well. The autoprotetto armored transport, the L6/40, Autoblinda 41, Lancia Ansaldo IZ(M), more tanks? I really need these vehicles in plastic lol!
Title: Re: Italian M13/40
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on June 10, 2017, 03:58:32 PM
There is a thread for the L6/40
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=510.0 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=510.0)

And a previous thread for the L13
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=509.0 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=509.0)

There should be one on the North African campaign somewhere.

You could start an Italian vehicle thread (and put links to the other threads in the first post). A number of contributors to this forum have expressed interest.