Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Rubicon Models on May 06, 2015, 10:13:35 pm
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(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Misc%20Images/SdKfz%20250%20Survey%20v1_zpsfuigxc5o.jpg)
Background History
The SdKfz 250 (German: Sonderkraftfahrzeug 250; 'special motor vehicle') was a light armoured halftrack, very similar in appearance to the larger Hanomag-designed SdKfz 251, and built by the DEMAG firm, for use by Nazi Germany in World War II. Most variants were open-topped and had a single access door in the rear.
The SdKfz 250 was adopted in 1939 to supplement the standard halftrack. Production delays meant that the first 250 did not appear until mid-1941.
The vehicle was used in a wide variety of roles throughout World War II. The basic troop carrier version was used as an armored personnel carrier for reconnaissance units, carrying scout sections. This basic variant usually mounted one or two MG34 machine guns. Later variants carried 20mm, 37mm, and even 75mm guns to support the more lightly armed versions.
Several special-purpose variants were seen early in the war. The 250/3 and 250/5 were command variants, with fewer seats but equipped with long-range radio equipment. These were used by battalion and higher commanders as personal command vehicles, most famously the 250/3 used by Erwin Rommel in the North African campaign. Early versions had large 'bedframe' antennas, which were easy to spot at long range, making them more vulnerable to artillery fire. Later variants dispensed with this and used a whip antenna instead.
The SdKfz 253 variant was fully enclosed, and was used by artillery forward observers to accompany tank and mechanized infantry units.
The initial design had an armoured body made of multi-faceted plates, which gave good protection against small arms fire, but which made the design both expensive to manufacture and quite cramped. Production of this early version stopped in October 1943 with some 4,200 built, and a second version (neue Art or "new version"), greatly simplified to speed up manufacture, began replacing it
In both variants, the armour was useful only for stopping small-arms fire and small artillery fragments. Heavy machine gun fire, anti-tank gun fire, or almost any tank gun could penetrate the SdKfz 250 at long range.
Which version you think we should do... can't do both!
Mind you this is not a "do it right away" project, just on our production plan...
;)
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I think the alte is more interesting looking.
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please include the option for the 250/3 Greif
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please include the option for the 250/3 Greif
Similar to our SdKfz 251D, the SdKfz 250/1 is the base kit for all variants... ;)
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I feel you should make the original 1941 version, because certainly there'd be some still in service after 1943 anyways. Whereas only making the 1943 one would mean, not usable in pre-1943
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I'd prefer the Alte, too.
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based on the sdkfz 10, so maybe also a possible kit some day, either as artillery tower or as sdkfz 10/4 or 10/5 AA versions
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I would love to see an SdKfz 250 in plastic. On balance I'd prefer the neu version, simply because it looks better, both as the basic troop carrier and in its armoured car (SdKfz 250/9) and 7.5cm gun carrier (SdKfz 250/8) incarnations. But I can see the arguments in favour of the alte version - it was more widely produced and served for a longer period, and you'd be able to include parts for the earlier SdKfz 250/9 (with an SdKfz 222 turret), the Funkwagen (SdKfz 250/3, with the iconic 'bedstead' aerial) and perhaps the mortar carrier (SdKfz 250/7). Maybe you could even include the munitions carrier (SdKfz 250/6) which accompanied the StuG batteries - I'm assuming that the vehicle's small size would mean there is enough space on the sprues for the parts for several variants.
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Thanks for all the positive feedback! The SdKfz 250 is on our production list BUT not on the top... still waiting her turn to be produced. However, we will need to start researching the vehicle as there are so many variants possible with this kit. Some research will take over 2 to 3 months to complete!
It is a hard decision to choose between the Alte and the Neu version, but the basic layouts are so different that we have to choose one first! This also impact on our SdKfz 251D development as there are so many common components that could be shared between the two vehicles.
This survey basically gives us some ideas on what you all wanted, and we will start our research based on your feedback! The decision is not final, as our research will "generally" dictate which version we will finally produce... always hard choices!
;)
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Alte please.
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The SdKfz 250 Neu is your safest bet as most people play late war. The bonus of being able to have interchangeable parts with the 251 is an awesome idea.
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I like both and am pleased for either, however my vote would be for the Neu Cheers.
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Alte for versatility and cuteness.
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I would like to see the alte version. I agree with the earlier comments, that the early version could be used throughout the war.
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Alte.
Othe people do the other, the alte can be used both early and late war and its looks nicer. Add in totally selfish reason that it'll go nicely with my DAK, they're the reasons for my vote
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I prefer the Neu version because it will go with my Normandie project. (But I will probably buy the Alte anyway and send it to the desert.)
One note is that you have been doing lots of late war, and if you are doing an Alte version maybe you should do more early war stuff too?
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One note is that you have been doing lots of late war, and if you are doing an Alte version maybe you should do more early war stuff too?
Ah... You did noticed ;)
Yes, we are moving our focus a little bit to cover more early war vehicles - from our current projects, you should see
(1) M3 Half Track
(2) Opel Blitz <- Might need to change "final" box name because of IP issues :(
(3) Crusader Mk I / II / III
coming along nicely!
This proposed project SdKfz 250 is also aimed to provide some early war support for our beloved gamers!
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I think I agree with the majority, early. It can be used throughout the war, where as the new is pretty much late war only. However, if the running gear etc is the same then do the early first, then the late later
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Alte for me too. It's a more aesthetically pleasing model, and far, far more useful too as they were used in so many theaters. Enough were around post 43 for them to still be valid in a late war collection
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Neu for sure.
Altes can be used throughout the war, but it's rare enough that I'd not be particularly comfortable with it.
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I also prefer the look and flexibility of the Alte version, so that's what I voted for.
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I actually miscasted my vote, i wanted to vote for the new version, but i somehow did not.
While i see a bigger market for the basic version (basic meaning te unmodified alte version), i think the new version offers more interesting variants.
To be precise its mostly because of the /8, while there are drawings and some models of the old version using the stummel, i have not seen any fotos so far.
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Talking about if there was any SdKfz 250/8 Alte... From the publicaton Panzer Tracts #15-1 says...
"However in November 1943 the le.Schutzenpanzerwagen 7.5cm SdKfz 250/8 had not gone into production yet, and when it did it was the Ausf B.", which is the "Neu" chassis.
Further PT-15-1 states "The start of 7.5cm K52 (sf) production was delayed (first 57 being produced in December 1943)..."
Production of Ausf B (Neu) hulls started in "about June 1943" while production of the Ausf A (Alte) continued "until January 1944". This was only for the SdKfz 250/9 with 2cm KwK.
So no clear evidence is presented by Panzer Tracts that the K51 mount ever was fitted to the Ausf A (Alte) chassis.
If you look at the obvious physical limitations on the Alte chassis, how was the mount to be fitted into the angles and dimensions of the Ausf.A superstructure? We have saw graphic illustration of a 250/8 on an Alte chassis, but there is no photographic evidence of one!
Still searching...
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I haven't found any photos either . But " Encyclopedia of German Tanks " says some were converted in in spring 43 . And as the Germans did convert many vehicle types in very small numbers ( 5 - 10 ) as stop gap measures it could be possible . I imagine the A type would have a gun mount through the drivers visor plate like the 251/9 C . The later 251 Ds having a new mount ( K52 sf ) which raised the gun above the vehicle body , the same as the 250/8 Neu . Either way , not much room in the vehicle for the crew and 20 rounds of ammo , would hate to be the driver of this thing :-\
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in Terry Gander's book on the SdKfz 250, he says only a few prototypes of the SdKfz 250/8 were built on the alte body, although some saw service.
According to "Schutzenpanzer", by Bruce Culver and Uwe Feist, the alte SdKfz 250/8 didn't use the 7.5cm K51(sf) mounting. This makes sense, because (as you say) that mounting was designed for the neu version and the SdKfz 251/9 Ausf D. It would have looked awkward on the alte hull. I can't find any photos of one.
Both Gander's book and "Schutzenpanzer" say that production of the neu hull began in October 1943, but the changeover wasn't really complete until July 1944. Only a very small number of SdKfz 250/8s were built - 8 by the end of 1943 (some of these were presumably alte versions), 10 in 1944 and 51 in 1945. So the alte SdKfz 250/8 was so rare as to be insignificant. I'd suggest there are more important versions worth including as options in an alte kit.
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" a little off topic " Maybe Rubicon could give us a 251 D Stummel with both types of mounts for the short 75mm . Those of us so inclined could make what ever conversions we wanted with the kit parts ( I could build a 250/ 8 or use the Warlord plastic Puma and build a 234/3 ) I've used the 3 in 1 251 D extra bits to jazz up a couple of older resin kits . Always good to have extra bits for kit bashing . I don't think I've built a kit straight out of the box in the last 20 years of model building . :)
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Maybe Rubicon could give us a 251D Stummel with both types of mounts for the short 75mm. Those of us so inclined could make what ever conversions we wanted with the kit parts (I could build a 250/8 or use the Warlord plastic Puma and build a 234/3) I've used the 3 in 1 251D extra bits to jazz up a couple of older resin kits. Always good to have extra bits for kit bashing. I don't think I've built a kit straight out of the box in the last 20 years of model building. :)
You probably had missed out the discussion on future 251D expansion kits. Here is the link:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=35.75
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/SdKfz%20251-1%20Ausf%20D/SdKfz%20251D%20Expansion%20150607-1_zpsudzralfh.jpg)
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Those look fantastic . Would they be a complete 3 in 1 halftrack kit or just a accessory kit of up grade parts for conversions ? As a modeler I would like to see a whole variety of add on sets in 1/56 scale .
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Would they be a complete 3 in 1 halftrack kit or just a accessory kit of upgrade parts for conversions? As a modeler I would like to see a whole variety of add on sets in 1/56 scale.
We really have not decided yet. This is a pretty much still a WIP project. At least two to three expansion kits are planned, depending on the number of parts per variant had taken up sprue space.
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With the Prototypes of the Upgrades for the 251 in mind, are there any of those that might fit on the 250?
(like the mortar & the stummel - at least for the late version)
Edit
and if not maybe the might be combinded for both if few changes are needed (as in extra parts)
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With the Prototypes of the Upgrades for the 251 in mind, are there any of those that might fit on the 250?
(like the mortar & the stummel - at least for the late version)
Edit
and if not maybe the might be combinded for both if few changes are needed (as in extra parts)
Here is a cross-reference which of these variant components can be used on the SdKfz 250:
251/1 with sPzB 41 - C & D and 250/11
251/2 Mortar Carrier - C & D and 250/7
251/10 with 3.7cm PaK 36 - C & D and 250/10
There are also plans to do SdKfz 250 ONLY variants... but not until we have the basic kit released.
NOTE: There are no release date!
;)