Rubicon Models
Rubicon Models => General Discussions => Topic started by: Tracks on August 19, 2019, 11:51:38 am
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Looks are in the eye of the beholder. That being said, Rubicon Models is trying to please both modellers and gamers alike, but the simple fact is that 1:56 (28mm) scale is going to be predominately a gaming scale. As a result, Rubicon Models should keep this in mind. I strongly believe that if their figures were closer in appearance (look and style) to Perry Miniatures, this would be better for all at this scale.
Plastic model companies usually make figures with more anatomically correct proportions while wargame companies almost always make figures that tend to have oversized heads, hands, weapons, and other features because sculptors like to put emphasis on those parts of the wargame figure. Also, in the case of weapons and other features, added strength and durability for use on the gaming table.
When it comes to their figures, Rubicon Models is trying to be too anatomically correct. Actually, you would think that this is a good thing, but I wished they were closer in look and style to the Perry Miniatures. Perry Miniatures are for gaming, and as a result the Perry brothers mix in a good blend of anatomically correctness with some exaggerated detail and proportions that make them look good on the gaming table and/or dioramas. Used for gaming or modelling, Perry figures just work. They do a far better job at this than most other companies including Warlord Games, whose figures tend to be very much "heroic" – very much over exaggerated proportions for their scale.
(https://i.postimg.cc/56dr0DSx/Comparison-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56dr0DSx)
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Tracks, I agree with all that. Rubicon's crew figures definitely have a mini-Tamiya design vibe to them. They look to be aimed more at modellers than wargamers.
I'm a wargamer and figure modeller / painter, not a scale model AFV nut. So for me, the figures are just as important as the vehicles and guns. I adore Rubicon. I love how they do business, the quality of their kits and everything about them. The only thing I have continuing reservations about is their human figures. The CAD precision that serves RM so well in the design and production of hard-edged vehicle and artillery models, just doesn't seem to work so well for the soft, organic forms of the human body and clothing. To be fair, I'm only talking about the plastic crew figures, as I haven't bought any of the pewter infantry miniatures.
But as far as the crew figures go, posing invariably looks stiff and odd; the detail on faces, fingers etc is too soft; clothing - especially sleeves - far too baggy with an overdose of folds and creases; and helmet and hat shapes are too often slightly wrong. I would say, in the spirit of constructive criticism, that if there's one area where RM could and should raise their game, it's in the modelling of 1/56 scale soldiers. I'm sure they will.
Although the size and stature is pretty close to the Perry 1/56 WW2 figures, the RM plastic crew figures don't tie in stylistically - which is why I generally kitbash my plastic crew figures with Perry heads, arms and weapons / equipment onto the Rubicon bodies.
To be fair, I think Rubicon's figures are a closer match to Michael Perry's WW2 figures than to the outsized, cartoony Warlord figures, which are much closer to 'traditional' wargames munchkins with oversized heads, hands and weapons. The Perry figures, as you say, are a much more successful compromise between wargames style and realistic human dimensions and poses.
I guess the main difficulty with aligning to the Perry range, is that with the exception of the recently released US plastic set, which is fairly generic for WW2, the rest of the Perry range is only concerned with the Western Desert and Italy / Crete / the Med, which is something of a minority interest in the WW2 wargaming sphere. Whereas Rubicon's range covers the much larger and, erm.. popular theatres of the Eastern Front and Western Europe from early war, through D-Day to the Ardennes and beyond. Until such time as the Perrys produce infantry sets for the Soviets and European theatre British/Commonwealth and German, I guess most people will still reach for Warlord plastics, or metals from Artizan, Crusader and the like. Which are way too big and chunky to sit comfortably with 'true 1/56 scale' AFVs, softskins and guns from Rubicon.
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Although the size and stature is pretty close to the Perry 1/56 WW2 figures, the RM plastic crew figures don't tie in stylistically - which is why I generally kitbash my plastic crew figures with Perry heads, arms and weapons / equipment onto the Rubicon bodies.
Can you please share some pictures?
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Although the size and stature is pretty close to the Perry 1/56 WW2 figures, the RM plastic crew figures don't tie in stylistically - which is why I generally kitbash my plastic crew figures with Perry heads, arms and weapons / equipment onto the Rubicon bodies.
Can you please share some pictures?
Here are a few...
Rubicon bodies with Perry heads and / or headgear, and / or arms, weapons and accoutrements.
It just makes them fit in visually a lot better with the Perry infantry...
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/39/577-160619194805.jpeg)
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/577-210318215024-319891055.jpeg)
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/29/577_29_07_17_3_06_37_1.jpg)
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/29/577_29_07_17_3_06_37_3.JPG)
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/39/577-260719123339-399781562.jpeg)
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Inspiration for crewing the Kettenkrad and the Kubelwagen. Thanks.
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I really love the way you do figures, Captain Blood.
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Thanks :)
I enjoy making and painting characters.
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Fantastic job on the figures Captain .
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Captain Blood, thanks for the pictures! But darn you for that because now I want to take apart my RM German motorcycles with sidecar and modify all the figures... grumble, grumble.
Not only do they fit in better, but also look so much better as is without having to fit in.
I sure hope RM see these.
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Very nice! I have been doing likewise with some of the Rubicon figures ( vehicle crews predominantly) and selected Warlord heads- it certainly doesn't work with all, the scale creep is too great but where it does it certainly helps to blend the war gaming figures with the vehicles. It is a dilemma and as stated beauty in the eye of the beholder, Absolutely love the Rubicon vehicles and unashamedly I will always go Rubicon where there is a choice between them and ANY other manufacturer Resin or plastic even to the point of replacing vehicles I already have when a new Rubicon becomes available- so subtle hint- keep churning them out! . But, figure wise (despite the horror of the plastic US airborne - someone really crapped the bed with those! and the odd issue about weapon options) I'm a Warlord boy. I just find that they convert the most easily and paint up better than anything else on the market. again though....personal choice, each to their own.
kettenkrad looks really good!
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I'm not a big fan of mixing metal and/or resin heads with plastic bodies, but has anyone tried using other 28mm heads from different companies? Even though some of these 28mm heads are the same size as the heroic Warlord heads, there might be some that are smaller.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1686/8361/products/brodie-heads-resin_1000x.jpg?v=1548991090)
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In the real world , people do have different size heads . I try to keep the helmets all the same size as that's what stands out ( to me ) on most figures . Although some ( USA , Germany ) did have 3 or 4 sizes of helmet with adjustable liners . in 28mm the difference is , IMO , minimal . And to make things difficult some companies ( Warlord for one ) have different sized heads in their blister packs , so buyer be ware . I'm told its all down to who sculpted the original head , same as some metal ( and early plastics ) are different in size than newer sets .
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I rather like the rubicon scale and less heroic scale
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While I do like the size / scale of Rubicon's figures , I've only got about 25 - 30 Rubicon figures ( tank / vehicle crews ) , while I must have 250 plus Bolt Action plastics . Now if Rubicon had produced their figures ( platoon size boxes of Infantry ) and vehicles first , I never would have got any other brand . As it is , I buy and build what ever catches my interest and what's in stock at the LHS and stores in Calgary and Edmonton ( an hours drive !! , south or north ) .
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This is why I think the WW2 plastics from Perry Miniatures are a good balance.
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They are nice , but I feel Warlords are better for kit bashing
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They are nice , but I feel Warlords are better for kit bashing
With Rubicon Models figures?
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It depends . I've used BA figures with Rubicon arms & heads , and Rubicon with BA's . I've also swapped upper or lower bodies ( plus some messing around with PSC Russians ) And you can throw Tamiya 1/48 into the mix as well , just cut a few mm out of legs to get " right looking " height . You don't know for sure until you try .
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I've used BA figures with Rubicon arms & heads , and Rubicon with BA's .
I do know Perry Miniatures bits work very well with Rubicon Models bits. , but I haven't even considered using BA (Warlord) because I didn't think it would work. I will have to try.
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Their 1st plastic kits ( British & German late war ) have smaller / thinner arms and work quite well ., at least they do for me with a little surgery . The later sets are hit and miss , but some arms on most sets work
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Their 1st plastic kits ( British & German late war ) have smaller / thinner arms and work quite well
Yes, those early plastic sets with separate arms and weapons. I have lots of those bits in my extra bits box, so I will give those a test.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG4jvfrD/USbodiessprue.jpg)
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I never got any of the US sets so I didn't comment on them .Good to know though , guess I'll have to get a sprue for the spares box during the next sale
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When it comes to their figures, Rubicon Models is trying to be too anatomically correct. Actually, you would think that this is a good thing, but I wished they were closer in look and style to the Perry Miniatures.
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/oscthumb.php?src=/images/IMG_1541.JPG&w=540&h=353.34&f=jpg&q=95&hash=3ae3f033f9dc780cff2fb83299b2f576)
Speaking of Perry Miniatures, the new plastic US infantry are amazing. One of my friends thinks they are too thin, but he is used to Games Workshop's very heroic girth and scale. I think the new plastic US infantry from Perry are well proportioned with a good mix of anatomically correctness and exaggerated detail and proportions, but this is usually the case with Perry plastic figures.
Instead of posting details and pictures here, someone else has already done this. More information can be found here:
https://moitereisbuntewelt.blogspot.com/2019/04/review-perry-miniatures-us-infantry.html
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Not bad looking figures , just wish they didn't have the molded on base . Plus a few in more " action " type poses wouldn't go amiss
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...a few in more " action " type poses wouldn't go amiss
Ripely, interesting that you say this. Do you actually have the new plastic US Infantry by Perry Minaitures?
I also need to make a note about Perry Miniatures. Their plastic figures are usually a little slimmer than their metal figures. Also, lately their metal figures have a lot of flash issues (all ranges). Their plastics are just the opposite because there are almost no mold lines.
Rubicon Models would benefit if their figures were closer in appearance to Perry Miniatures plastics.
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I don't have any Perry figures at this time , but from the sprue shots I've seen , they don't look to action posed . That's probably OK for a game , but I want to build a D-Day beach diorama , so I will need running , crouching , type figures . While the BA plastics are limited in their body types ( 5 - 8 per sprue ) with a little leg swap surgery ( and green stuff ! ) , I can make some dynamic in action figures .
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Rubicon Models is trying to be too anatomically correct, while others try to be too "heroic" with added body girth, oversized heads, hands, weapons, and other features. However, a rare few find a good mix (Perry's plastics) that look good and work well.
That being said, the "heroic" size of things is not limited to miniature sculptors.
Here are some "digital" examples of figures in a computer game:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbmhTCJf/CoH-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2tWdscF/Comparison-4.jpg)
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More digital "Bolt Action" gaming figures.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGJ1RH3y/CoH-3.jpg)
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Except for the Perry Miniatures WW2 plastic boxed sets, does anyone know if there are any other manufactures of 28mm WW2 figures (plastic or metal) that mix and/or blend in well with the Rubicon Models 28mm figures?
The Perry Miniatures of course being some of my favorites. Especially their "US Infantry 1942-45" plastic boxed set (42 figures). For those that do not like the attached bases, they can easily be removed with care - using a good sharp cutter and trimming with a good hobby knife.
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Offensive miniatures? They are 1:56 and seem a close match for Perry. I don’t own any Perry minis but I do have the British airborne from Offensive to accompany my Rubicon Sherman IC Hybrid; the start of my WW2 project. The figs are really well done.
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On the bases, if you use 25mm round bases, the Warlord lipped bases mean you do not need to remove the Perry integral bases.
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I don`t know what happened too the Wargames Factory 28mm WW2 figures. I know Warlord games have all the rest of their figure ranges but the WW2 stuff have vanished and I do not know if they are available anymore.
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@Dragonstriker - Thanks, I'll have a closer look at Offensive miniatures. I have never heard or seen these figures before. From a quick look at their site, it looks like they focus on certain figures.
@ultravanillasmurf - I usually leave the bases on, but I have to remove the base/stand if I plan to use the figure in a vehicle. For example, to get one to fit into on of my Rubicon Models M3 Half-Tracks, I had to remove the figure's base/stand.
@Ad - Wargames Factory made 28mm WW2 figures? Well, will you look at that (after a google search)... yes they did. They look good. They even had 28mm WW2 Soviets! Do you have these? What do you think of them? Pictures? Looks like they are going to be hard to get now. Shame because they look good, and not that bulky "heroic size".
Back in the day, I did picked up Wargames Factory 28mm plastic American War of Independence figures. I like the look (not heroic sized at all) and detail of these figures. They also blend in with the Perry Miniatures. I prefer the Wargames Factory AWI figures when it comes to choices, poses, and overall look, but both AWI lines (Wargames Factory and Perry Miniatures) are good.
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I hear tell from a FB post (I’ve been unable to relocate it though) that Enpress WWII minis are a good fit with Rubicon’s. I’m skeptical because their website doersn’t specifically indicate that they’re 1/56 scale.
Does anyone have any experience with the Empress line?
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Empress make nice figures.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bOw9jb6411E/XF8ggjZCxII/AAAAAAAAExk/VjfhjCnIf9UF_KhWGfWIqUS-o9CDXX44QCLcBGAs/s1600/bef-1-1.png)
The WW2 figures are 28mm scale (by Paul Hicks who sculpted the earlier Warlord figures).
As are the French Indochina...
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qTjkHttwaHY/WtI8zXTFL_I/AAAAAAAADiA/fc4l_2vtiIEeAUn863c8VFoVDbeq-qFJgCLcBGAs/s1600/frenchpara3-2.png)
And the Vietnam War ones.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IhOi8Zycc7k/XOHOUQ2wAWI/AAAAAAAAFf0/fFESIzAhDKgCP1WLcf7f5L0waYliyibKQCLcBGAs/s1600/nam-3.png)
I will try and take some comparison shots.
In the meantime, here is a comparison shot of a Paul Hicks Warlord BEF and a Perry Eighth Army figure.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p3oUl6qpacw/U0wykTrAIZI/AAAAAAAAAr0/eIQbDQOUOnk/s1600/ww2scale.png)
On the figure front, only Perry Figures are similar to Rubicon.
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I will try and take some comparison shots.
Looking forward to seeing these.
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I’m interested in a size comparison too. This is an image of some of their German Volksgrenadiers. They look like really nice sculpts, but only if I can work them in with the Rubicon figs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/w1NscP9g/C9-D0-C9-C8-4521-4224-B4-E6-8-BD4-A4-F8621-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1NscP9g)
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Sorry for the delay.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iG103joKq6w/X6MyDdxkYJI/AAAAAAAAHQ0/mTweSV3WkLcJnF8a63DErRaa12a4a0jEQCLcBGAsYHQ/s500/rubiconempresscompare.png)
(unfinished) Empress Late War British, Rubicon Zhukov, Empress Early War.
Somewhere I have a Rubicon British infantryman, but I have been unable to find it.
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That looks to be a pretty good match size and weight wise, maybe a little larger on the Empress side, but probably acceptable. And, those are some fabulous paint jobs. Thanks for the posting!
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This is a useful comparison, thanks for doing this. Do you have other 28mm figures to compare with.
Would like to see how others compare. Something like Rubicon Models, with Wargames Factory, Perry Miniatures, Offensive, Empress, and Warlord of course.
I wish I had a slew of different figures so I can post a sample comparison of the different manufactures, but sadly I do not have these or access to these. We do have a lot of plastic Warlord (Bolt Action) 28mm figure, and we have a few Perry Miniatures (plastic), but we only have a few Rubicon Models figures. The main reason is because it's not easy to get this stuff in Thailand. Especially now with the current situation.
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This is a useful comparison, thanks for doing this. Do you have other 28mm figures to compare with.
Would like to see how others compare. Something like Rubicon Models, with Wargames Factory, Perry Miniatures, Offensive, Empress, and Warlord of course.
I will see what I can do.
I do not have any Offensive WW2 figures (the rioters and hostage rescue are different sizes to each other). I also do not have any Wargames Factory WW2.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X4sbsmQshtQ/Udi3UqlqN4I/AAAAAAAAAgw/ZpVUyPk5N3s/s1600/apocalypsemen1.png)
Left to right are Factory with AK47, Empress British, Factory with L85, CD William Killan and finally another Factory figure with an AK47.
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My type standard figure is the sadly discontinued Crooked Dice William Killian (here the time travelling terminator hunter version).
Here he is with Warlord Games Russian and US Army (original) armed with Warlord Games Survivor weapons.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aCXVDSWRMo8/WDH5atyABdI/AAAAAAAABm4/lkrsnhPsNyUh5BXusKktk80yqgF8R2R3gCEw/s1600/boltactionmoder2.png)
This compares William with Rubicon's Hobart.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-I__hgzV8uWA/WtI-EnpkPqI/AAAAAAAADjU/K-QpHRkdgjEbYnwvyw4PaPrjgVhAV5rCQCLcBGAs/s1600/commanders3.png)
Rubicon Studebaker.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qk9Q0W-8fq0/WWXDgDTG0sI/AAAAAAAACgs/63Tp61uJ7fYhD2AOYjb0zi7EkDgWwfK8QCLcBGAs/s1600/studebaker6.png)
New photographs will have to wait until the weekend (no light ).
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Steve, of Age of Glory Historical Miniatures, the U.S. distributor of Empress Miniatures, was kind enough to send me a couple of sample figures to compare with my Rubicon figures.
They are very nice, clean figures, but as you can see from the photo (Empress on the left, Rubicon on the right), the Empress figs are a bit larger in proportions when compared to the Rubicon.
I’ll definitely be ordering more Rubicon, but I think I’ll probably be ordering some Empress eventually, but I’ll segregate them in different units so the differences are not so apparent.
(https://i.postimg.cc/s1PpJCqk/5-CB65532-A36-D-4793-BD75-E57-AF930019-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1PpJCqk)
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A nice comparison. Thanks for sharing.
I keep hearing that the Wargames Factory WW2 figures blend in very well with Rubicon Models and Perry Miniatures figures.
I don't have the figures to do it, but it would nice to see a good comparison like what "www.deepfriedhappymice.com" does with 15mm Napoleonic figures. Might be useful for some to see a side by side comparison of figures from Rubicon Models, Wargames Factory, Empress Miniatures, Perry Miniatures, and any other figures that might work well together.
Because of their "heroic" sizes, is it even worth showing any Warlord figures?
Pic from "deepfriedhappymice"
(https://www.deepfriedhappymice.com/assets/images/autogen/a_Nap_15_Fr_SBS_GroupA.jpg)
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I for one prefer the anatomically correct figures - the "heroic" stuff looks cartoonish to me. YMMV
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Here, here!