Rubicon Models

Rubicon Models => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Rubicon Models on August 08, 2015, 05:05:54 pm

Title: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 08, 2015, 05:05:54 pm
A special project that we had been working on... The Hetzer!
How could we have a US tank destroyer without a German counterpart?

Jagdpanzer 38 Tank Destroyer
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB01%20Hetzer%20Cover_zpsf5b1fjyz.jpg)

Background History of the Jagdpanzer 38 Tank Destroyer

The Jagdpanzer 38 (SdKfz 138/2), later known as Hetzer (“baiter”), was a WW2 German light tank destroyer based on a modified Czechoslovakian Panzer 38(t) chassis.

The Jagdpanzer 38 was intended to be more cost-effective than the much more ambitious Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger designs of the same period.  Using a proven chassis, it avoided the mechanical problems of the larger armoured vehicles.

It was better armored than the thinly armoured earlier Panzerjäger Marder and Nashorn with a sloped armour front plate of 60 mm sloped back at 60 degrees from the vertical (equivalent in protection to about 120 mm), carried a reasonably powerful 75mm gun, was mechanically reliable, small and easily concealed.  It was also cheap to build.  The Jagdpanzer 38 succeeded the open-top Marder III (based on the same chassis) in production from April 1944; about 2,584 were built until the end of the war.

The Jagdpanzer 38 fit into the lighter category of German tank destroyers that began with the Panzerjäger I, continued with the Marder series and ended with the Jagdpanzer 38.  The 75 mm PaK 39 L/48 gun of the Jagdpanzer 38 was a modified version of the 75 mm StuK 40 L/48 used in the StuG III and StuG IV assault guns.  With this gun the Jagdpanzer 38 was able to destroy nearly all Allied or Soviet tank types in service at long ranges (except heavy tanks) and its fully enclosed armor protection made it a safer vehicle to crew than the open-topped Marder II or Marder III series.

The Jagdpanzer 38 was one of the most common late-war German tank destroyers.  It was available in relatively large numbers and was generally mechanically reliable.  Like some other late-war German SPGs, the Jagdpanzer 38 mounted a remote-control machine gun mount which could be fired from within the vehicle.  This proved popular with crews, though to reload the gun a crewmember needed to expose himself to enemy fire.


Objective of our 1/56 plastic kit will be as follow:

- a 2 or 3 sprue plastic kit
- able to build either an Early, Mid or Late Hetzer tank destroyer
- with options to build a Flammpanzer as well
- three gun mantlet choices
- two road wheel sets
- multiple rear idler wheel choices

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB02%20Hetzer%20Early_zpsdqc1hiyv.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB03%20Hetzer%20Mid%20A_zps8ltpbxp4.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB04%20Hetzer%20Mid%20B_zpspwu3t0n5.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB05%20Hetzer%20Late_zps8gvaftg8.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB06%20Hetzer%20Flammpanzer%2038t_zpsrtjplkbi.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB07%20Hetzer%20Track%20Design_zpsuu8gcnwf.jpg)


Will post prototypes when available!
Enjoy!



Title: Re: German Armoured Vehicle - RESERVED...
Post by: Pinky on August 08, 2015, 05:16:35 pm
Maybe this one is the Hetzer....
Title: Re: German Armoured Vehicle - RESERVED...
Post by: Laffe on August 08, 2015, 05:43:04 pm
Hm....  ;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 13, 2015, 12:05:49 pm
How could we have a US tank destroyer without a German counterpart?
Introducing... The Hetzer!




Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Pinky on August 13, 2015, 02:25:52 pm
I haven't checked any references, but the drawings certainly look good.  I'm sure I'll buy one, it's just (IMO) one of the less interesting German SP guns.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 13, 2015, 02:32:21 pm
I haven't checked any references, but the drawings certainly look good.  I'm sure I'll buy one, it's just (IMO) one of the less interesting German SP guns.
Game-wise it is quite good... especially the Flammpanzer!

This also give us a platform to build early 38(t) and other variants using existing components from the Hetzer.  Still need to figure out how to deal with the bolts and nuts on the light tanks!  Is quite different from the Crusader in terms of problem-solving.

Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Laffe on August 13, 2015, 07:42:46 pm
Hetzers gonna hetz  8)

This looks like a sweet kit.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Pinky on August 14, 2015, 12:11:19 am
Had a look at some references.  Your drawings seem to be quite accurate.  Lots of nice little details, like the revised driver's vision port, changes in the roadwheels (will you actually provide 2 different sets?), additional commander's hatch, and changes in the exhaust design, culminating in the Flamm-Vernichter on the late version.  Nicely done!

I think the only real issue is the dates you've given for the various versions.  For instance, the roadwheels were modified in August 1944, and the changes to the inner mantlet were on different dates to those shown.  The 'smooth' outer mantlet (without the 2 retaining bolts) wasn't introduced until August 1944.  I can't work out what the mantlet on 'Variant B' is meant to be - I can only identify 3 different mantlets.  The vision port was revised in October 1944, so your mid production version should still have the earlier type.     

The Flammpanzer version was built on the late (December 1944) model of the Hetzer, as per your drawing.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 14, 2015, 12:33:34 am
Pinky, the dates of these changes & variations are indeed very confusing.  We have several books on the Hetzer and everyone was providing conflicting dates.  We are using common dates plus some educated guess as to what period these changes were made.  So, the dates are just an indication about the time period.  In fact, many vehicles had wheels predated the required changes, probably because they still have stock or using refurbished components from destroyed Hetzer or 38(t) as the Germans had much less resources to procure sufficient parts to build more tanks!

And YES, we have two sets (early and late) of road wheels with this kit!  And as usual, you did your homework checking on us too!  Nicely done!

;)

Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: moiterei_1984 on August 14, 2015, 02:11:34 am
Well, this one will definitely find it's way into my collection. Certainly one of my all time favourites.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Suetonius Paullinus on August 14, 2015, 04:14:06 am
Omg this is awesome!!!
I'm gonna have to buy one for every variant I fear..better start saving my hobby pennies right now.
Such a sweet little tank killer  8)

Looking forward to seeing more of this beauty soon.

Cheers

SP
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: ripley on August 14, 2015, 08:42:46 am
Great idea for a  kit . But I don't think you can make everybody happy by trying to give us all the variations of the Hetzer . The book I have shows 2 road wheel types , 2 drive sprockets and 3 different rear idler wheels used through out production . You can also find mixed sets as the German's would start using new parts as soon as they arrived , and would install the remaining old parts as the new ran out . ( just look at some of the oddball features on the late Stugs for example  ). Don't drive yourself crazy , just release an early and a late version . And of course the Flamm  , only 20 built and used in the Ardennes ( Battle of the Bulge ) but I'm sure it will be real popular with the Gamers    ::)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Pinky on August 14, 2015, 09:11:32 am
The dates I mentioned are from Jentz, and he's normally pretty reliable.  But it's a fair point that sources conflict over things like production changes.  I think Ripley's suggestion is a good one - just provide an "early" version and a "late" version, and people can build their own intermediate version by combining parts.

The Flammpanzer version (again, according to Jentz) didn't see action until Operation "Nordwind", with Panzer-Flamm-Kompanie 352 and 353 (10 vehicles each). 

I don't suppose there's any chance of including a Bergepanzer 38 as well?  :)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 14, 2015, 11:45:23 am
The dates I mentioned are from Jentz, and he's normally pretty reliable.  But it's a fair point that sources conflict over things like production changes.  I think Ripley's suggestion is a good one - just provide an "early" version and a "late" version, and people can build their own intermediate version by combining parts.
That's what we have basically done!  Except that we have added one or two(?) "mid" version mantlet and a rear idle wheel to complete the variants.  This little beast is a THREE sprue kit... didn't expect that!  Was planning it to be a 2-spruer!

I don't suppose there's any chance of including a Bergepanzer 38 as well?  :)
Don't push for it!  >:(

Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Images Uploaded 150813
Post by: Pinky on August 14, 2015, 05:01:23 pm
I dunno if those two "intermediate" mantlets are really worth including.  The early and late types seem to cover it.  I'd suggest that you include a tow cable instead - it was carried looped around the circular rear access hatch.  And maybe an additional antenna mount for the command version?

Really impressed with the level of research on this one - well done.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 21, 2015, 02:15:27 pm
Things are getting better and better!  Here are some 3D prototype images of the Hetzer...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB01%20Hetzer%20Early_zps2gg3u2v2.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB02%20Hetzer%20Early%20Rear_zps1r61wp1t.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB03%20Hetzer%20Late_zpsd9rklmpr.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB04%20Hetzer%20Late%20Rear_zpsssgowa6j.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB05%20Hetzer%20EampL%20Parts_zps0asev2qy.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB06%20Hetzer%20Wheels%20amp%20Tracks_zpsr5g8poox.jpg)

Due to too many variants, we are only showing an early and late production models.  Might post some more later on...

Comments?

;)


Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: Pinky on August 21, 2015, 02:53:17 pm
Looks fantastic.  My only suggestion would be to make it clear in the instructions that the Pilzen on the roof should be removed on the early version.  Hopefully you can squeeze in the flame gun as well.

Lovely work!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 21, 2015, 03:10:09 pm
Looks fantastic.  My only suggestion would be to make it clear in the instructions that the Pilzen on the roof should be removed on the early version.  Hopefully you can squeeze in the flame gun as well.

FYI... the flammer, a total of 4 major parts - will be on the sprue!  Just confirmed!!  :D

Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: ripley on August 21, 2015, 09:11:31 pm
Looks great . IMO a real improvement on the depth / thickness of the molded on tools . Looks very 3d as opposed to some tools that look very flat , if you understand my meaning
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: Rubicon Models on August 21, 2015, 09:49:33 pm
Looks great . IMO a real improvement on the depth / thickness of the molded on tools . Looks very 3d as opposed to some tools that look very flat , if you understand my meaning
Thanks for the compliment. In most instances, is a case-by-case thing... mostly related to the mould release angle and placement of the part line; we always try to find a balance!

;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 150821
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 03, 2015, 12:43:34 am
This is our TS1 plastic sprue for the Jagdpanzer 38!  Still have some fitting and moulding issues, but should be easily resolved!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-01_zps6pfaobug.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-02_zpsuotjf3yb.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-03_zpsr1rjh8oz.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-04_zpsruh8meb1.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-05_zpsmvxfmmea.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-06_zpsciyqyee9.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-07_zpsvll7vtdx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-08_zpsbzyxylhi.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer%20T1%20Sprue%20150930-09_zps4laarcbp.jpg)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 03, 2015, 06:07:32 am
That looks great the separate tools are especially good.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Pinky on October 03, 2015, 11:26:38 am
This seems to have gone from design to sprue production in almost no time!  And the components look excellent.  I guess some people will feel that the tracks are oversimplified, but I think they're fine.

Incidentally, having built the M8 HMC and M3 halftrack kits, I have to congratulate Rubicon on the high level of precision they've achieved.  Building a Rubicon kit is now a real pleasure.  The M3 in particular almost builds itself.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 03, 2015, 11:36:40 am
Thanks again Pinky for your kind words!  The most time spend on these projects are not drawings or mould making, but double checking "historical accuracy" and "build logic"!  We want our models to be both historically accurate and yet easy-to-build in a logical way!

The M3, with its one piece body, is aimed to be an easy build.  Mould cost is much higher, but think is worth the investment if we can sell more of this beast; especially with a lower retail price as well!

;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 04, 2015, 11:28:51 am
Here is a 3D prototype view of all the possibilities from our Hetzer sprues!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Hetzer-Teaser-151004-1_zpsijff44bu.jpg)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 04, 2015, 04:22:15 pm
They look great, I will definitely want a number of them.

I have just been looking at Horst Schubert's  book on the Hetzer and G13 (Schiffer Military Volume 27 ISBN 0-88740-238-0) and your excellent 3d renderings. According to the description the Hetzer has twelve and six hole idlers, the four hole idler shown as the late production track unit would appear to be a G13.

The book mentions a G13 at the museum in Munster masquerading as a Hetzer.

That is of course from only one source.

[Edit]
Okay, the Osprey NewVanguard lists five different idlers including four hole - the modelling book has a May 1945 model based on the US Aberdeen proving ground with four holes. The Osprey modelling book mentions seven variants but does not list them.

The Czech uprising example in their museum from May 1945 has six holes, that was liberated from the Skoda factory without a gun.
There do appear to be a lot of G13s about:http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Hetzers_G13.pdf
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Pinky on October 04, 2015, 05:20:21 pm
I have just been looking at Horst Schubert's  book on the Hetzer and G13 (Schiffer Military Volume 27 ISBN 0-88740-238-0) and your excellent 3d renderings. According to the description the Hetzer has twelve and six hole idlers, the four hole idler shown as the late production track unit would appear to be a G13.

The book mentions a G13 at the museum in Munster masquerading as a Hetzer.

That is of course from only one source.

I wondered about this when the photos of the prototypes were first put up.  According the Doyle and Jentz's Osprey title on the Hetzer, the final version of the idler wheel had 4 holes i.e. it did appear on Hezters.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 04, 2015, 05:28:24 pm

I wondered about this when the photos of the prototypes were first put up.  According the Doyle and Jentz's Osprey title on the Hetzer, the final version of the idler wheel had 4 holes i.e. it did appear on Hezters.

I was just editing my post having dug out the two Osprey titles on the Hetzer.

My original posting was asking if a G13 could be built from the kit, so I had the only book I had that included the G13, that was then changed to the query on the four hole idler.

As I mentioned above, the US Aberdeen Proving Ground had a four hole example, though it now has an eye watering colour scheme at Fort Lee - see the Surviving link above.

I should also have checked the sprue pictures and the rest of the thread - too distracted by the shiny pictures - which showed the other idler options. Apologies.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on October 06, 2015, 05:01:14 pm
Any chance we could see a photograph of the underside of the upper hull moulding?

As I was looking at the Osprey modelling book, I was wondering how easy it would be to build the Bergepanzer and infantry gun.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 17, 2015, 07:14:26 pm
Finally more images on this little tank destroyer!

A 3-sprue plastic kit which enables you to build a 1/56 (28mm) scale Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer in early, mid, or late production. Also have parts to build this little tank destroyer into a Flammpanzer 38(t). Comes with 3 gun mantlet choices, two road wheel sets for different period, and multiple rear idler wheel choices. Other accessories include machine gun and tank binocular. Available in Q4/15.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB01%20Hetzer%20All%20Four_zpssli6nu0m.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB02%20Hetzer%20Early_zpsbzqcincl.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB03%20Hetzer%20Early%20Left%20Rear_zpst1awb6yk.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB04%20Hetzer%20Early%20Rear_zpst7wgufie.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB05%20Hetzer%20Mid_zpsjwpzdgir.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB06%20Hetzer%20Mid%20Rear_zpskfmzwdrx.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB07%20Hetzer%20Late_zpsmoui4mpe.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB08%20Hetzer%20Late%20Rear_zpsnn7jhu9o.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB09%20Flammpanzer_zpsdxwzuj0u.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB10%20Flammpanzer%20Rear_zpskwlgvhon.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB11%20Hetzer%20Variants%201_zpskxkg70yy.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB12%20Hetzer%20Variants%202_zpswnvvijxl.jpg)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Pinky on October 18, 2015, 12:09:09 am
So this one's basically done.  Nice work.

Q4 will see the M10/M36, the M8, the Hetzer and what else?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Rubicon Models on October 18, 2015, 12:17:36 am
Q4 will see the M10/M36, the M8, the Hetzer and what else?
We are pushing this to be released early December so that everyone will have something for Christmas!   ;)

We are also trying to release additional items for Q4/15 after Christmas... will see how it goes!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - 3D Prototypes 151003
Post by: Suetonius Paullinus on October 25, 2015, 01:38:46 am
Three Hetzers for Christmas  8)
Yay!!!

Cheers

SP
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Decal Design 1151111
Post by: Rubicon Models on November 11, 2015, 01:03:33 am
Here is the preliminary Hetzer decal sheet:

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Waterslide%20Decals/Hetzer%20Decal%20Ideas%20v2-1_zpst7lpulel.jpg)

Any comments?
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Decal Design 1151111
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on November 11, 2015, 04:48:40 am
It certainly covers a range of number styles.

Does the Prague set mean there is a shield for the Mg armed version liberated from the factory?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Decal Design 1151111
Post by: Rubicon Models on November 11, 2015, 03:03:48 pm
Does the Prague set mean there is a shield for the Mg armed version liberated from the factory?
We don't just cater our kits for gamers, the Czech Prague decal set is to give kit bashing modelers an option for their creation since there are not much 3rd party decals in this scale.
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Decal Design 1151111
Post by: Yaquir on November 11, 2015, 04:47:04 pm
Looks quite good  :)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Decal Design 1151111
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on November 11, 2015, 04:57:49 pm
Does the Prague set mean there is a shield for the Mg armed version liberated from the factory?
We don't just cater our kits for gamers, the Czech Prague decal set is to give kit bashing modelers an option for their creation since there are not much 3rd party decals in this scale.
;)
For which we are grateful.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Praha,_Star%C3%A9_M%C4%9Bsto,_65_let_od_v%C3%A1lky,_tank_01.jpg)
The above must be a memorial paint job.

One of the modelling magazines recently had an article on building one.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - TS1 Plastic Painted 151122
Post by: Rubicon Models on November 22, 2015, 04:36:38 pm
Hetzer testshot #1 plastic sprue painted for testing purposes. The final kit details as follow:

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-00a_zpspgrtq8w1.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-00b_zpsx6im8sig.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-01_zpsu8qcoluy.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-02_zpsk1tiqowb.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-03_zpsfbqawfs5.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-04_zpsnsrpkq7l.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-05_zpsek4jmi2l.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-06_zpsmdhnzjiq.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-07_zps9disig6w.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-08_zps3ahmrmpt.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-09_zps2h75naaw.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/FB%20Hetzer%20T1%20Painted%20151122-10_zpspgcrw7fz.jpg)

The kit should be available before Christmas!
Enjoy!

;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - TS1 Plastic Painted 151122
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on November 22, 2015, 04:51:40 pm
They look extremely good.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - TS1 Plastic Painted 151122
Post by: Yaquir on November 22, 2015, 09:20:07 pm
Looks realy, realy good!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - TS1 Plastic Painted 151122
Post by: Pinky on November 22, 2015, 11:52:41 pm
Looks great.  Although the paint jobs on a couple of these aren't up to your usual standard...

Have the Q4 releases been firmed up?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - TS1 Plastic Painted 151122
Post by: T. Dürrschmidt on November 24, 2015, 06:24:02 am
Another must have!
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Expansion Kit 171218
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 18, 2017, 09:58:01 pm
Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) 2cm KwK 38 - a new expansion project for one of our best kits!

The marriage of two existing kits:
(1) 280030 Jadgpanther 38(t)
(2) 280048 SdKfz 250/251 Expansion Kit - SdKfz 250/9 & 251/23
...with a new Bergepanzerwagen 38 chassis!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Panzer-Aufklaerer%20Aus%2038t%20171218-1_zpshqojqqek.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 18, 2017, 11:21:18 pm
So would this be a new kit or would it be an expansion?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 18, 2017, 11:38:40 pm
So would this be a new kit or would it be an expansion?

Just a few new pieces so that you can convert existing kit into a new vehicle.  A test project for us to see how feasible this will work.
Probably a blister pack requiring you to buy both the Hetzer and 250/9 & 251/23 kits... 
some might already have an extra turret, so is more affordable to convert.  ;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Pinky on December 18, 2017, 11:51:48 pm
But why waste time and resources on something like this?  This is the kind of thing Dragon does - prototypes and one-off German vehicles.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 18, 2017, 11:57:41 pm
But why waste time and resources on something like this?  This is the kind of thing Dragon does - prototypes and one-off German vehicles.

This is only an hour of work with a few part changes, but it does give us the opportunity to do a pilot study of what other projects we can do with similar products... M4 Sherman, Panzer III & IV, etc.

The Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) 2cm KwK 38 is a late war recon vehicle that was being built and can be used with games like late-war BA & Konflikt 47.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 19, 2017, 12:24:40 am
I am making a guess that the chief component is a replacement part A05 (upper hull). If you make the top plate separate it would allow an assortment of uses.

I do not have access to any books so cannot see what the other JPzr 38 variants look like.

I can understand that this would potentially extend sales of existing kits with only a limited new development.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 19, 2017, 12:35:28 am
I am making a guess that the chief component is a replacement part A05 (upper hull). If you make the top plate separate it would allow an assortment of uses.
I do not have access to any books so cannot see what the other JPzr 38 variants look like.
I can understand that this would potentially extend sales of existing kits with only a limited new development.

UVS, we are exploring the design and packaging of conversion kits that will enable you to build combinations of other vehicles.  The projects that we are working on are closely related and can be extended or combined into a new product by means of repackaging or an additional conversion kit.

We are a design studio as well as a manufacturer, thus we can also play a role to be an after-market developer of add-ons parts too!  ;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 19, 2017, 01:26:05 am
We are a design studio as well as a manufacturer, thus we can also play a role to be an after-market developer of add-ons parts too!  ;)
And you are in the best place to develop them. I look forward to seeing what you develop.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Ballardian on December 19, 2017, 03:29:17 am

 Ok, it's a little niche - but it's a niche I certainly game in (late & 'weird' WWII). If indeed it woiuld only require the creation of a few bespoke components I'd love to see one (along with an ARV & the slightly bizarre 280mm mortar carrier version).
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: tyroflyer on December 19, 2017, 07:44:51 am
I'm not usually a supporter of the diversions Rubicon tend to get involved with. However to my understanding this is more than just a prototype, is a vehicle, rather than a fence, and an armoured one at that. It gets a tick from me.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Expansion Kit 171218
Post by: Jaeger on December 19, 2017, 09:32:44 am
Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) 2cm KwK 38 - a new expansion project for one of our best kits!

The marriage of two existing kits:
(1) 280030 Jadgpanther 38(t)
(2) 280048 SdKfz 250/251 Expansion Kit - SdKfz 250/9 & 251/23
...with a new Bergepanzerwagen 38 chassis!

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Panzer-Aufklaerer%20Aus%2038t%20171218-1_zpshqojqqek.jpg)

Oh, I would like this too.  A lot!
Aufklarung platoon
Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Pinky on December 19, 2017, 11:13:11 am
I'm not usually a supporter of the diversions Rubicon tend to get involved with. However to my understanding this is more than just a prototype, is a vehicle, rather than a fence, and an armoured one at that. It gets a tick from me.

It didn't see service. The version that did used the late model Pzr 38(t) chassis.

(https://s33.postimg.org/ub02h8p3f/download.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ub02h8p3f/)

My point is that there are so many more 'worthwhile' vehicles to give this kind of treatment to.  How about a Bergepanzer 38(t)?

(https://s33.postimg.org/679asym23/bergepanzer-38-t-1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/679asym23/)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: tyroflyer on December 19, 2017, 11:28:38 am
I bow to your great knowledge Pinky. However I think Rubicon's expressed intent to create different variants of their products is to be encouraged. I was particularly interested to see the Panxer IV mentioned in that context.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ripley on December 19, 2017, 12:02:18 pm
Interesting . Maybe Rubicon could do small run craftsman type kit with a the needed parts and plans / diagrams for cutting / drilling the base kit . Sort of what those Vacu form kit manufacterers did back in the 70s .  I think that would be neat . They could also make parts to go on other companies base  kits .  S&S Models does that with their  ARV conversion  kits  in metal and resin for BA's Sherman , Cromwell & Panzer III . S&S also make a lot those type of kits in  1/72  as well ( for Airfix tanks ) . Lots of companies do it for 1/35 kits as well , so why not 1/56 ?  Might be a niche market that could be profitable , I know I could think of a few conversion kits I'ld like to build , much easier then scratch building my own parts  ;D
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Expansion Kit 171218
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 19, 2017, 04:32:04 pm
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Panzer-Aufklaerer%20Aus%2038t%20171218-1_zpshqojqqek.jpg)

@Pinky: It does say on Bergepanzer 38t chassis...
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: elias.tibbs on December 19, 2017, 04:54:14 pm
You can argue all day whether imor not it was made/saw service or if the kit is worthwhile from a commercial standpoint.

But what none of us can deny is that this things looks pretty damn cool.

And as UVS pointed out and Rubicon’s explanation of wanting to package expansions for multiple variants, it looks like this might not be the main reason behind the kit.

I just don’t get the hatred for this on here and the Facebook pages.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: tyroflyer on December 19, 2017, 05:20:54 pm

I just don’t get the hatred for this on here and the Facebook pages.

Hatred is a strong word. People are usually expressing disappointment with Rubicon's choice of subject. My support for this choice is more about supporting the concept than this particular vehicle. Panzer 38(t) Ausf A being more numerous and fought for a long period.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Jimmy_P on December 19, 2017, 05:31:21 pm

I'd be surprised if there were the interest/demand for this justified the cost of plastic tooling, even if it's only a couple of extra parts. Or are Rubicon thinking the additional conversion parts needed be in resin?
Resin conversion parts to expand the range in a (relatively) cheap way, and to cover some (potentially) lower demand variants was something that had been talked about before?

 I do like the leveraging of some of the different expansion kits in alternate combinations this way though, it is a neat idea.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Pinky on December 19, 2017, 08:57:25 pm
I think it would be a shame for Rubicon to go down the route of ever more obscure German subjects.  Even if it's going to be German ('cos German stuff sells) there are so many better subjects than things like this - like the Bergepanzer 38(t) I mentioned, or a Bergpanther conversion.  Or parts to build the recovery versions of various other existing Rubicon tanks.  The US and British recovery vehicles are very interesting subjects.  It may involve more parts, but it would fill real gaps in the range.

I don't understand the reference to a "new" Bergepanzer chassis.  The Bergepanzer had a lower, open-topped superstructure.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ripley on December 19, 2017, 09:09:35 pm
I think all the negative comments are more disapointment  rather than hatred for the kit . As others have said , lots of worthy subjects  that served in combat in numbers , so why do a one off kit ? Its the same in 1/35 market , lots and lots of new Panthers out there  , but no new Bergepanther . Not even a hint of one ,and that the beast every German tank modeler wants . And only having 2 companies producing 1/56 plastic kits , every new release is hopefully , one step closer to our favorite tank . These left field projects don't get us closer to our wanted Ram , Sturm Tiger or ISU 152
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 19, 2017, 10:54:00 pm
We are really surprised to see a heated debate about our company direction as to what project to tackle in the future.

As stated, this is simply a pilot study to see what we can do with our existing products to create new ones with minimal efforts.  For example, this "vehicle" (disregard of its original) is a NEW product by using a SINGLE piece component (in this case, a new hull) and combining two existing products to create.  We just do not see what is wrong with this approach.  With similar product in our future range, we can combine a Panzer IV and a FlaK 36 to create an 8.8cm FlaK 36 auf PzKpfw IV Ausf H by creating a new upper hull.  Is this also not good?

With the same logic, we can create deep wading gear, dozer blades, mine flail, rocket launcher (T34 Calliope), and extra amours for the M4 Sherman range.  This also applies to combining other new and upcoming products (AA/AT guns) to create new tank variants too!

Is this a wrong approach to help increase our product range for the community?  All these require minimal efforts.  Might be not common vehicles, but still in demand for late war scenarios.  Also, these will definitely not affect our normal production schedule as these minor projects will be handled by trainee staff, and produced in limited quantity.  Other companies like Forgeworld had been doing this with GW plastic range for years, we are no different in that respect.

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Panzer-Aufklaerer%20Aus%2038t%20171219-1_zpssabwkdis.jpg)

Looking forward for more comments on this subject?
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 19, 2017, 11:55:11 pm
I might be misunderstanding Rubicon's intentions and the concerns being expressed by other contributors to the forum.

I see this as being a way of Rubicon adding to their range through minimal additional tooling. In this case an additional upper hull (replacing part A05? Of the existing Jpanzer 38) and possibly some additional bits that fit on a half size sprue.

As I mentioned I do not have access to my books at the moment, but would assume that other JPanzer 38 variants could use the same development and/or components.

My (possibly flawed) understanding of the concerns being expressed relate to time for other projects being diverted to this project. While I have a whole list of other vehicles I would like to see, I assume that like the fence project, this is not taking development time from other projects.

Without a deeper understanding of your start to finish process from idea to boxed product, I can only guess that projects like this can fit in to  your process. Plus they will sell more of your existing kits which can fund further development of those vehicles we want.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: elias.tibbs on December 20, 2017, 12:34:11 am
If it means I could potentially get an M32 expansion for my shermans I’ll be more than happy.

Personally, I have nothing against paper (or mild steel) panzers but I think it’s that which has caused the debate, and not the process.

Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Pinky on December 20, 2017, 12:59:57 am
I see that the 3-D image is different; it's now a revised hull piece, which may or may not be intended to be part of a Bergepanzer 38(t) upgrade, although it has a turret ring (perhaps a separate part).  It might help if that was clarified. 

My issue with the concept which was presented is that it isn't really anything at the moment.  I think if we were looking at useful upgrades to existing kits, then the reaction would be quite different.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: tyroflyer on December 20, 2017, 07:25:24 am
I posted the following during the Panzer IV discussion. If this is the sort of thing you have in mind I'll be very pleased.

I wonder whether it would be possible to modify it via an expansion kit to make an Ausf C. I think 3 small pieces would correct the turret (new mantlet and side access hatches). The hull machine gun would need to be removed and replaced with a plate that is flat with the driver's. The real tanks were a centimetre different in width (nothing in 1/56 scale).
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - NEW Expansion Kit?? 171218
Post by: Jaeger on December 20, 2017, 07:59:31 am
With the many comments about Bergpanzers how many components of them we common to all.
Is the anchor spade on the  Berg Panther the same as the FAMO and the Bergpanzer 38t?
Did the Berg Panzer and Berg Panther use the same Boom pieces?  Would they fit on the Panther G turret?
The Berg Panzer III, the Berg Panzer IV and Berg Panther had a wooden superstructure, could an expansion kit supply the pieces to build one of them.  Don't forget the winch.
Also common between them are timbers, block and tackle, cables, tools and part crates.
The M32/M32B1 Tank Recovery Vehicle could be an upgrade kit for Shermans like the ones done for German halftracks.
Or a BARV  or M31/M31B1/M31B2 .
Just a thought.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - One Piece Hull 171224
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 24, 2017, 02:59:49 pm
A single one-piece modified Bergepanzerwagen 38 chassis in resin...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-1_zpsmfirjmrg.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - One Piece Hull 171224
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 24, 2017, 04:54:12 pm
All becomes slightly clearer.

Does that mean there is a Bergepanzer upper hull as well?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - One Piece Hull 171224
Post by: Pinky on December 25, 2017, 11:05:33 am
So this is just the hull for the hypothetical recon version.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: Rubicon Models on December 28, 2017, 02:07:02 pm
Mixing two kits with a new one piece hull...

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-01_zpsf6jjqsa3.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-02_zpspefz89ub.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-03_zps0drxfqg2.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-04_zpsnj5uxhsi.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-05_zpslqwjquej.jpg)

(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-06_zpsezmujzcl.jpg)

Enjoy!
;)
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 28, 2017, 04:45:57 pm
Very nice.

I wonder how many points it costs in Bolt Action (must dig out the points table).

So is there a Bergepanzer as well (we are never satisfied).

As a diversion, what about another joint project with Heer 46 for a 38(t) based APC?
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 28, 2017, 04:56:13 pm
Found the design rules.http://www.wwpd.net/2017/05/bolt-action-vehicle-design-system.html (http://www.wwpd.net/2017/05/bolt-action-vehicle-design-system.html)
Normal caveats apply.
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: elias.tibbs on December 28, 2017, 09:06:55 pm
Worse case, just use it as a 222 or 6rad.

Nothing in the rules or vehicle entry that says it must have wheels...
Title: Re: Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer - Prototype 171228
Post by: ultravanillasmurf on December 29, 2017, 06:04:19 pm
Yes you could use it as a "counts as" replacement for the 222 or the 231, 234/1, 250/9 or 251/23.
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag377/RubiconModels/Hetzer/Aufklaumlrungspanzer%2038t%20Hull%20171224-01_zpsf6jjqsa3.jpg)

Using the Bolt Action design rules above gives you:
Medium tank
Thin sides
Light Autocannon
MMG
Open Top
Recce
145 points

The heavier frontal armour is the primary cost increase.

Of course if you replaced it with a Puma turret, it would make a nice Recce tank. More paper panzering....